Downwind *Faster* than the Wind

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Clemco
Clemco
430 posts
430 posts
11 Nov 2010 5:33pm
Well done you Blackbird guys! I think the problem with a lot of your knockers is they have never sailed a high performance landyacht. I quite regularly sail my Class 5 landyacht at 5 times the windspeed in light winds (<5kts). Did last weekend in fact, no problem. Not directly down wind of cause, but we understand the principle.

My question is: If the blades of your propeller were like soft sails that you could sheet in to create a flatter wing section as your speed increased (like we do on our landyachts) would the propellers rpm accelerate? thus accelerate the vehicle?
spork
spork
24 posts
24 posts
11 Nov 2010 5:43pm
You could in fact make the prop blades just like a sail. Picture two windsurf sails connected at the mast-foot. Then sheeting in would be the same as changing prop-pitch. Up to the optimal point this would increase performance. But just like over-sheeting the sail on a windsurfer, you can over-sheet the blades on the prop and lose performance drastically.
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
11 Nov 2010 8:29pm
now weve got the downwind bit sorted, how does it perform on reaches and more importantly , a broad reach.
I spend alot of time explaining to even experienced landsailors that you cant get sailing straight downwind and that you need to start ona reach , or even upwind when the winds are light.
what the the characteristics of your machine in other directions
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
11 Nov 2010 10:51pm
landyacht, those are the experiments to be done after the DDWFTW experiment has been perfected.

Maybe a rotating propellor head, assiting foils, better mechanicals etc.

I think there is a long way to go with this one.

The one thing that concerns me is getting one's head swiped by that big prop.

I do believe these guys have hit on something here that will go a long way.
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
11 Nov 2010 9:27pm
cisco said...

landyacht, those are the experiments to be done after the DDWFTW experiment has been perfected.

Maybe a rotating propellor head, assiting foils, better mechanicals etc.

I think there is a long way to go with this one.

The one thing that concerns me is getting one's head swiped by that big prop.

I do believe these guys have hit on something here that will go a long way.

surely it doesnt just sail downwind, that would be silly

nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
11 Nov 2010 10:04pm
landyacht said...
surely it doesnt just sail downwind, that would be silly


It would appear so...

Upwind, or normal 'sailing' directions you need a turbine, directly downwind you need a propellor. Two completely different principles I think.

So the boat with the big spinney thing on the mast uses a turbine, and can sail in any direction, but this machine uses a propellor and can only go straight downwind (although it does do that very well)
spork
spork
24 posts
24 posts
12 Nov 2010 12:00am
nebbian said...

landyacht said...
surely it doesnt just sail downwind, that would be silly


It would appear so...


Yup. As it stands the Blackbird is designed to go directly downwind faster than the wind. We have exceeded the wind speed on courses of 45 deg or so off the wind, but this is less optimal.

By making the entire rotor head swivel as suggested, and making the prop pitch variable over a large range, it would theoretically be possible to go faster than the wind in any direction.

So the boat with the big spinney thing on the mast uses a turbine, and can sail in any direction


Correct, but you cannot go downwind faster than the wind using a turbine.

Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
12 Nov 2010 4:12am

So the boat with the big spinney thing on the mast uses a turbine, and can sail in any direction


Years ago there were rotor ships built which had large cylinders as masts which were rotated by motors and harnessed the wind as a power assist method but they should maybe be in a thread of their own and are different to what is being discussed here
What do you define as a turbine as opposed to a propeller ?
I take it that a turbine extracts power and a propeller delivers it ?
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
12 Nov 2010 8:14am
Hiko said...
I take it that a turbine extracts power and a propeller delivers it ?


You got it
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
12 Nov 2010 8:40pm
nebbian said...

landyacht said...
surely it doesnt just sail downwind, that would be silly


It would appear so...

Upwind, or normal 'sailing' directions you need a turbine, directly downwind you need a propellor. Two completely different principles I think.

So the boat with the big spinney thing on the mast uses a turbine, and can sail in any direction, but this machine uses a propellor and can only go straight downwind (although it does do that very well)

But boats that have a rotatable mast to point the prop to windward can sail in all directions, even upwind now theres something worth working on.
for the life of me i cant see the point of only sailing downwind. . presumably you could modify to an Darius Hoop for sailing in all directions.
( I still love watching Waterworld)

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