G'day Fellas,

I'm the Vice Commodore of a now nearly non existent Victorian inland Yacht club. The drought and government policy have dried up our lake and our club is at the point of folding.
Recently I had the occasion to try a Blokart this winter up on Mission Beach and loved it. I am now thinking that land sailing may be one direction that might save our club!!! We have the facilities and our members are experienced dingy, cat and TS sailors. I want to find out more about the sport, existing clubs and the differences between the various classes of land yachts. and will they work inland. [And technically why dont they have jibs and or screachers for light breeze days]

Cheers
Greg

Ps Can you give me contact details of any clubs in Vic?

Hi Greg... welcome
Which lake is / has dried up as i sailed on many during my youth?

A good place to start in this forum is the "Landyacht Register " in the general section.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39412

There are basicly 3 classes of landyachts in Australia
class 5 ... The serious racing yachts
class 6... smaller yachts which include the Blokart, Lake Lefroy mini & others
and an open class where ANYTHING goes
Also have a search for "Land Yacht Class 5 & 6 specs " in the general section (midway down on page 2)
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39786

As you are new to the sport have a good read of "Build a Landyacht. Lake Lefroy Mini Yacht " at the start of the constrction section of this forum.
These are great little yachts and can be built very easily......
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33825

And to answer the question on jibs ... the apparent wind generated on landyachts makes jibs ineffective.
There was a class 6 yacht that did have a jib ( one that i built called a Sandpiper) the jib worked at low speed but you were unable to turn at high speed.

The question on clubs in Vic. some one will come up with the answer soon.

If you have any questions of anyone feel free to ask as we are all a very friendly lot here

Welcome

Your right the blokart is the equivalent to the hobie cats or laser class yachts.
There nomally no handicapping of yachts in racing although i believe that in New Zealand the blokarts use some type of timing and handicaps.
The down side to "manufactured" type yachts is they tend to remain the same and the sailors tend to move on after time, also the initial purchase sometimes put people off. But it will give you an instant fleet
The Class 5 yachts are MUCH faster than blowkarts and if you had the space provide great racing.
Home built yachts tend to attract people who want a try.. then they develope the design and class and seem to build more yachts, this leave the older yachts for new commers to the sport allowing a growth in the sport.
Yachts do often race at the same time but remain in the class grouping.
ie; in water sailing you can race hobies, ts yachts , and lasers on the same lake at the same time but as different classes.
If you can get the local council to do the ground work for you go for it......
The lake looks ideal.....
http://www.freewebs.com/mokoanyc/index.htm

Again I'd suggest you speak to Clinton (boogie) for several reasons. He is a member of ALSA the national governing body and may be able to help you out or may have even done some of the ground work for insurance etc. Also I believe he is or at least was a Blokart dealer and finally he is involved with Phoenix landsailing and Dave Webster who are developing some "off the shelf" landyachts and import seagull landyachts.

As for your other questions I'm sure they'll be answered here shortly.

My personal opinion is Blokarts are a great way to start up your club and would be my first choice to get it up and running as fast as possible, my only suggestion would be don't make it a Blokart exclusive club to allow the developmental aspect of the sport. To me that's half the fun! From the looks of Giz's picture it looks as if it would accomodate C5 as well as the minis.

Please keep us up to date with your progress as we will want to make your club a destination for holidays and inter club events.

Good day and welcome,
The Coolgardie Shire Council a couple of years back purchased 6 new blokarts to get an instant fleet and promote landsailing as a toursit thing on the magnificent lake lefroy. Unfortuneatley the logistics of employing someone, with the knowledlge to show people how to sail, go to the lake and wait for people to show up and then hope the wind blows has proved problomatic so they do tend to spend more time of the trailer than being used.

yes off the shelf blokarts will give you an instant fleet however be away if they are purchased by a group/grant to include in your plan someone to look after and repair the yachts (spare parts?) as you go along. When a yacht does not belong to a *person*. People unfortunately do not always treat it as they should do

The option of allowing club members to build their own (perhaps in a joint club project - materials are cheaper when purchased in bulk) can perhaps be the *club commaradiere thing* that kick starts your club again - may give a good sense of ownership to the project and the yachts too?

As to racing. Several ways of doing it blokarts often have flying starts where as other larger landyachts usually have a start of a line (bigger fleats use a morel grid for fair starting postitions). The number of laps is usually dependant on the size of the course and the time. Often a series of short races 10-15 mins are a great way to get started. You can easily get a good number of races in during an afternoon. Often going straight back to the start line without getting out of the yacht and running 2 or 3 consectutivley then having a break - a great way to learn thedifferent skills very quickly - and make the most of the wind before it dies off

longer races and marathons are all part of the fun.

The sport is not big in Australia - opportunities exist for the keen to compete overseas with FISLY being the govening body world wide.

We had a spell in Central Vic and travelled to a number of locations looking for good venues - but did not get up your way - looking forward to seeing the pic's of your lake.
cheers Susan

If you can get the local council to do the site works this might inspire you......
It is a pic of the blokart test track in New Zealand......
Size wise great for class 6, interesting for a class 5 in strong winds.

Paul,
When the lake is fully decommisioned , there will be an area in front of the club that wont be returned to wetland and this is what I have in mind for a race area, It is sloping at the moment but could be leveled off as mentioned in an earlier post. In a normal winter the soil becomes soft and boggy but once dry sets hard. It mght be best if it gets sown down to grass and if it ever rains again, get slashed for the sailing season.

Cheers


Greg

first aid kit?? I'd recommend an ambulance or two!

Please keep the thoughts coming?
How much would it cost for materials to build a "Pacific Magic" and get it onto the track.
Are mast obtained from traditional marine spar sources?
Sails from sailmakers?
Parts from BIas and Whitworths etc?
Tubs/pods are sourced from where?

Greg

Greg,

My name is Brian Campbell. I am the President of the Melbourne Blokart Club mentioned earlier.

We would be more than happy to assist you if you want to move to blokarts. There are a number of blokart clubs across Victoria and many more across Australia, and we would always welcome a new one.

I can understand your desire for the 'one design' concept. Personally, I find the best kind of racing is when the winner is determined by sailing skill alone. It's also nice to be able to pack your landyacht into a bag, chuck it in the boot and go for a drive. No trailers, no roofracks, and only 10 minutes to setup and you are sailing. We even take our own blokarts to competitions overseas - they conform to the airlines' 32kg bag allowance and can be carried as sporting gear.

We don't 'handicap', but we do break competitors into classes based on the type of blokart and the competitors' weight. There is a Production class that is a bare-bones blokart sailed 'out of the bag'. This is for people who have just purchased the basic blokart and have not yet bought the performance add-ons. This is the version that is permitted to sail against other class 6 landyachts - the Performance class is too fast and therefore has an unfair advantage. A range of performance add-ons can be bought and a bit of trimming allowed in the Performance class. We then break the groups based on weight to remove the inherent advantage light people have in sailing in light winds and heavy people have in strong winds. Apart from that, men race against women, adults against children, and the best part is that the disabled can race against everyone else without disadvantage.

To address another point made earlier, spare parts are readily available. I should start by saying that blokarts are hardy beasts. I've seen one slam into a cyclone wire fence so hard it bent the bottom rail of the fence 300mm. The blokart had a small scuff mark on the steering column about 3-5mm diameter. Nothing bent, and the owner just kept sailing. Damage does happen, but getting spare parts and doing the repairs is not difficult. I have done some pretty horrendous things to my blokart and have never had any trouble getting replacement parts and getting it back into service. Just today, I ripped my fourth luff pocket (high speed, sharp corner, stiff wind, bitumen, no Mast Sleeve Protector - bad mix) and will have no trouble having the sail back in action in a week or two. All you need is a few spanners, a screwdriver, and a pop riveter to do just about any repair on the chassis you can think of. No need to worry about buying a welder.

An Australian association specifically for blokarts is probably no more than a month away. There are more than enough blokarts around to warrant the formation of an association just for them. One of the aims of the association will be to assist new clubs to form and provide access to insurance policies at a reasonable price. The Melbourne Blokart Club has a $10M public liability policy (the minimum usually required when dealing with public and government bodies) and it costs us a significant part of the membership fees, so a reduction would be most welcome.

I hope I've been able to answer your questions. If you have any more, send me an email to info@melbourneblokartclub.org.au

Regards,
Brian

Dear Mr Inlandsailor, welcome. Whilst you are in the mode of tossing up the pros and cons of landsailing, let me say it's the best fun that I and my family have enjoyed over a number of years. Having sailed a Blowie and raced a class 5 I can only say that I spent my hard earned on the right yacht. If you want a very competitive and bullet **** class5 then look no further than the Sandgroper Club 88. It is a the standard yacht for the Sandgroper LYC in WA. It was developed to make the racing even and competitive and more importantly cost effective. It is not very attractive, nor modernistic, but it is very very fast in the right hands and it will kane a Pacific Magic every day of the week. I suggest you ring Murray Turner 08 9528 2720 for pricing on the Club 88. Good luck.
Regards
Kim

BTR said...

Dear Mr Inlandsailor, welcome. Whilst you are in the mode of tossing up the pros and cons of landsailing, let me say it's the best fun that I and my family have enjoyed over a number of years. Having sailed a Blowie and raced a class 5 I can only say that I spent my hard earned on the right yacht. If you want a very competitive and bullet **** class5 then look no further than the Sandgroper Club 88. It is a the standard yacht for the Sandgroper LYC in WA. It was developed to make the racing even and competitive and more importantly cost effective. It is not very attractive, nor modernistic, but it is very very fast in the right hands and it will kane a Pacific Magic every day of the week. I suggest you ring Murray Turner 08 9528 2720 for pricing on the Club 88. Good luck.
Regards
Kim

it still come back to the pilot ,it is not only the design as they all have three wheels ,seat sail and mast and both have the same building guide lines for constrution

Greg,
Just thinking more about your / your clubs situation a few more things could be put into a local gov. submission... how about a "Remote Control park" as you will have a large area it could also be used for RC model aircraft, RC model cars, and if the wetland area had enough space for RC model yachts and power boats.

I find with interest that the blokarts have divided a "one design" into many sub classes / groups.
I suppose a bit like Laser yachts now having 3 classes in one
Laser standard
Laser Radial
Laser 4.7

BeeGee said...
We don't 'handicap', but we do break competitors into classes based on the type of blokart and the competitors' weight. There is a Production class that is a bare-bones blokart sailed 'out of the bag'. This is for people who have just purchased the basic blokart and have not yet bought the performance add-ons. This is the version that is permitted to sail against other class 6 landyachts - the Performance class is too fast and therefore has an unfair advantage. A range of performance add-ons can be bought and a bit of trimming allowed in the Performance class. We then break the groups based on weight to remove the inherent advantage light people have in sailing in light winds and heavy people have in strong winds. Apart from that, men race against women, adults against children, and the best part is that the disabled can race against everyone else without disadvantage.

And then looking at the blokart Australia site you would need to possibly have to allow for these groups.......

Performance Super Heavy Weight
Production Super Heavyweight
Performance Heavyweight
Production Heavyweight
Performance Middleweight
Production Middleweight
Performance Lghtweight
Production Lightweight
Juniors

This might be fine in a major city like Sydney or Melbourne with 3.5 million + population, but for a smaller regional centre everyone in the club might end up with their own class / group.
Where as class 5 & 6 tend to sail as classes.....

"Would it be better for people to sail the same type of yacht and ALL being different or sailing yachts that are all different all being the same on the track?"

You also mentioned your interest of including the local youth / scouts etc. into the project, then Class 5 & 6 would be better for this as they could also be involved in the construction of the yachts rather than just fund raising.

Looking into this thread further I actually wonder if the blokart sailors regard the yacht as a piece of sporting gear or as a passion...(I know many are VERY passionate) but im surprised at the small number of postings on the blokart Australia forum and on the blokart section of seabreeze compared to the general Land Sailing section of seabreeze which is mainly on the subject matter of Class 5 & 6 (or are we just the passionate end of class 5 & 6) ?

I hope they stay on here to as they are as much part of land sailing as any other class and at this time we all need to stick together for the good of land sailing, I have met some great people who enjoy sailing blocarts, stick with it.
Cheers
Vic

I just want to pick up on a couple of Gizmo's points.

The list of classes he posted is correct and applies at large events (about 70 blokarts). We break up into this many groups for short course racing to prevent having too many competitors on the track at the same time. Often there may be only four classes - Performance and Production, heavyweight and lightweight with the weight split to even the numbers. I have only ever seen a 'Juniors' class once. As I stated earlier, juniors usually race with adults. The 'Juniors' class were the under 12's and sailed separately so they could have a simple standing start rather than a conventional, yachting running start.

As for contributions to this and the blokart forum, any perceived lack has nothing to do with a lack of passion. Quite the opposite. Because they are so portable, we tend to get together to actually sail quite frequently. We use Jiglu and SMS for the "I'm heading for <location> this afternoon - anyone else up for a blast?", so the discussions tend to occur face to face.

Regards,
Brian

I just find it interesting that with 600 blokarts in Australia (sales pitch from blokart.com.au site) that there seems so little chit chat on the forums...WHERE ARE THEY???
I have not yet seen a blokart in South Australia and from the forums there may not be any.
My first yacht was a "Free flight" Manta class yacht which I thought was the bees knees of yachts BUT soon found out that there were better yachts out there.
It would be such a pitty to see a small regional group be limited by the first yacht they come against which will limit them / their club into the future.
I think it is such a pitty that the discussion has come to blokarts vs class 5&6......
Wouldnt it be better for Landsailing Australia wide to recognise that ALL these classes are "LANDYACHTS" and for the sport to progress in Australia they all have their place.
Blokarts are a great little yacht but if you have only ever tried a blokart and nothing else it would be hard to make a judgement on the performance of the other classes.

Back to water sailing NO small club could survive being a "one class only" it may work in a major capital city but not in smaller clubs. Not everyone has the same views on the type of yacht they wish to sail. (as proved by this forum)