The sail buggy from Germany already have these 20" wheels as an option. They are manufactures and I should imagine that will find some way to sell there product.
I know the mini' where intended as a fun/entry level machine. But now that they are entering in racing events boundary's will be pushed. Look at the development changes in blocarts in a quest to win. As for my new mini it was really built to see how fast I could get it to go. I think it will be pretty useless on a racing situation where there are changes in direction.

gibberjoe said...


with a lot of regulation for the vehicle, what next, weight /class regulation

for the pilot weight for age to win....far too seriouse...[}:)]

gibber, do you understand what this topic is about? i think not

They are not for blocarts there main market is for kite buggys, they are not the only producers of these wheels, There are carbon and aluminum also available.

Then they would have to be able to take a flogging as they can come down on all sorts of funny angles and with a fair bit of shock involved I would imagine..

Have you got an address??
Ron

Gizmo said...

landyacht said...

I don't have a problem with a "Ultra Mini" class at all BUT don't sacrifice the "FISLY Standard Mini" in the process, Australia needs BOTH classes.
It has been mentioned / and shown that 2 similar classes / types of yachts can compete on the same course at the same time, so why not sail the "Ultra" & "Standard" Mini yachts together?

My suggestion is go with a "Ultra Mini" (for the developers and others that want to push the design boundaries) AND maintain the "FISLY Mini 5.6 class" (for newcomers, schools, children, and future manufactures etc).

By Australia maintaining the "FISLY Mini" as well it will also keep people in the loop for developments in the class if they wanted to attend International Championships.
By all means add the "Ultra Mini" to Australian classes, that way it satisfies ALL the land sailors and land sailing needs for this country.

Just to clarify -

"FISLY ANNEX n. 2 G
Contrary to the 'article 1 (2) for annex n. 16 only the English version is definitive.
MINI YACHT
A mini yacht is : [FGA 14/10/10]
- Any assembled land or sand yacht that fits inside a continuous loop of rope 5,6
meter long.
- The rope must lie on the ground. The touching part of the tyres on the ground
must fit inside the rope. [FGA 18/09/11]
- The tyre size is maximum 400x8 [FGA 18/09/11]
- The mast must be a circular tube; no wing section "

Go forth and multiply !

aus230 said...

This has been a good conversation.. I agree with you Gizmo and take your comments on board. My thought's, If I was to sail a mini under fisly rules at a competition any mini I used would comply with those rules. It is a great rule, which I fully support.
But I see the need to try new ideas, so in the end we may need to have two divisions, But I have the feeling that now that the mini racing has taken off in Europe the design will be challenged


Cheers
Vic

Yes EXACTLY Vic.... With Australia sailing 2 variations of a Mini class would be in the best position to take advantage of any changes made in the future to the FISLY Mini class..... and you are probably right in Europe the design will be challenged
I have used in my posts on this thread the words "Ultra Mini" & "Standard Mini" and this was done for a reason rather than using the word "Super Mini".
With a score sheet they could be simply identified as UM or SM (Just thinking of the future lap scorers)

Gizmo said...

Yes EXACTLY Vic.... With Australia sailing 2 variations of a Mini class would be in the best position to take advantage of any changes made in the future to the FISLY Mini class..... and you are probably right in Europe the design will be challenged
I have used in my posts on this thread the words "Ultra Mini" & "Standard Mini" and this was done for a reason rather than using the word "Super Mini".
With a score sheet they could be simply identified as UM or SM (Just thinking of the future lap scorers)

since you are one of those yacht builders ,who like us starts building his next design before completing the first, can i suggest that maybe finish the LLM,get stuck into the ATOM,then sail/race the 2 together. this will give you an idea of just how close a basic and super mini are and also a better understanding of the horses for courses aspects of some of the current super minis.
or perhaps pop down to the next misfits club meet, and volunteer to be a scorer, before all these theoretical classes can exist we need people building /buying yachts.

landyacht said...
since you are one of those yacht builders ,who like us starts building his next design before completing the first, can i suggest that maybe finish the LLM,get stuck into the ATOM,then sail/race the 2 together. this will give you an idea of just how close a basic and super mini are and also a better understanding of the horses for courses aspects of some of the current super minis.
or perhaps pop down to the next misfits club meet, and volunteer to be a scorer, before all these theoretical classes can exist we need people building /buying yachts.

Paul let me tell you a little about land sailing in Adelaide.... You tend to lose a little enthusiasm when your life is threatened, or your car/house is threatened to be fire bombed etc... I like you have also received threatening anonymous phone calls by others around the country just because we have an opinion.
I have personally witnessed the abuse that one blokart sailor, and others have faced simply by being on a public beach and "their" sailing site
Yes I have a passion for the sport, I have attended ALL the Misfits functions and sailing days that I was able to attend within my current work commitments... and by the way they don't use scorers as they are a social sailing group rather than a race group (as you would well know).
I have a long history with Land Sailing which I am extremely proud of and feel I have contributed positively to the sport in Australia. Whilst I don't currently get sand in my teeth it doesn't diminish my right to an opinion, personally I think I have earned that stripe. When or if my 2 yachts are completed and whom they are previewed to will be my decision.
There is a lot you DON'T know of what is happening in Adelaide so I would suggest your sarcasm is unwarranted but either way its not you place to comment on the subject!!!! ( it would be like me commenting on whats happening at LeFroy)

And by the way what is wrong with sailing 2 Mini classes in Australia?
What are you so scared of in having the two classes?
It seems to be a very good compromise and seems to be the same opinion of others.
You get what you want (a class to develop) and still protects the world wide integrity of the sport for newcomers into the future.


I personally think the idea of a development Mini class based on the 5.6m rule is GREAT lets DO IT!!!! (so Paul aren't we both wanting the same thing?)

BUT..... DON'T get rid of the FISLY Mini class in Australia ......HAVE BOTH

guys I'm not feeling the love

From me on the other side of this small planet and no doubt also people on other parts of the globe who enjoy this forum, its great to see so much passion and enthusiasm for a sport we all share a passion for.
Its great to watch and learn about now you lot invent, push the envelope and construct, test and do it over again and again.
Its also great to see passionate debate and we sure hope all that passion and energy can be harnessed in a positive and creative manner to assist expand our sport in Australia and Worldwide.

You guys should combine and harness all the energy you have and channel it into recruiting the next generation of creative fun loving landsailors , growing your numbers in what ever class or yacht people choose to sail.

Your years of experience, input and indeed creative output is commendable and I look forward to seeing the results of your combined and focused recruitment campaign that you know you can achieve if you wish.

You may be on the other side of the planet but the world is watching in anticipation and awe. So keep us posted on your progress and your development work Australia and keep focused on the task in hand.

It took about 10 yrs to get FISLY agree on the mini class specs so I wouldn't expect any major changes for quite some time yet. Strangely enough most people seem to sail and race miniyachts for fun and are not too bothered about who wins and no one loses when everyone is smiling !

There are many variations of miniyacht around the world and many tens of thousands of them bought and sailed by different people of all ages for different reasons. Now if we could only get more of them to sail together more often think of all the extra smiles there would be on this planet, and smiling like yawning is contagious !

Remember, manufacturers are not building miniyachts to win races , they build them to appeal to and to sell them to those tens of thousands who want to have fun !

I haven't found a commercial manufacturer yet who just builds miniyachts for people who only want to race them, probably because if there were any they are out of business !

Check....

www.char-a-voile.com/www-uk/ludic.html
minilandyachts.co.uk/specs.html
www.char-a-voile.com/silence.html
www.x-sail.com/
www.windcar-mexico.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8&Itemid=15&lang=en
www.spike.com/video-clips/2iqxkv/kwikat-landsailer-flying-on-2-wheels-beside-ocean
www.plumefactory.fr/yachts/1-plume-kart
wind-chaser.com/
www.vkart.fr/Details.html
www.landsegler.de/sail-kit.htm
www.windreamer.es/

www.blokart.com/#MapFrame
www.windline.net/sirocco.htm
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/Build-a-Landyacht-Lake-Lefroy-Mini-Yacht/

www.rinox.es/
sailkarting.blogspot.com/p/sailkart.html
www.the-zooter.com/

Great minds create the future and there are many many great minds on this forum, so use the combined know how and energy you have to creat the future ..NOW...

Go and develop the next generation of landsailing people and yachts but bring people with you while you are at it and dont turn your back on others who may not wish to or be able move as fast.
One thing is certain in any sport, a successful team is a group of talented individuals playing with other talented individuals with a common goal, to win.

So lets see your team in action.

And thats my lot for tonight !

aus230,
Now there is a good way of thinking. If your potential membership has a say in the way we operate in Australia you have a greater chance of increasing ALSA membership. Things definitely aren't in Black and white not even printed documents we just call them that where as in fact shades of grey as you say.

I keep looking back at what happened in Formula Racing. Any advantage was taken as unfair advantage until it got that way that permission has to be sort in quadruplicate scratch you Quoit 6 times and beg on bended knee. That I think was started with Ford and some of its Super cars. We don't need those attitudes and restrictions controlling us.

There are certain European attitudes, I believe, That would have competitors using precisely the same machines and purely based on the operators ability. I am not a Blow Cart Fan but an all but purely commercial machine would be ideal for that type of racing. Class restriction is enough

Ron

Further to Gizmo's post...

Shame on you to the Individual who rang our home phone this morning its not the first time. I don't appreciate individuals who wont give me the courtesy of their name but insist on endeavouring to intimidate me because Gizmo participates on a Public Forum. As I said to you everyone has the right to an opinion and you don't necessary have to agree.

BUT have the decency to debate your opinion with honesty and integrity on the forum not in my home!!!

Going by what I have seen/ read there are plenty of options within the bloKart design to improve speed. Andy B's cart for example is as quick as any mini. The blowy is a great little yacht why mess with it. (Says I who probably would,could not help myself by saying what if)

Cheers
Vic

Hiko said...

Arjay said...

So I have a Blokart. I enjoy the racing and friendships that come with the one design idea.

....BUT.....

If I were to enter in the mini class what do you recommend altering to the basic frame/sail/mast to make it go quicker??

Arjay I sail a mini with tricked blokarts and I reckon they are pretty quick as they are
Tuning and the pilot is probably the biggest difference IMHO

have to agree hiko, I would lose those shock cord batten adjusters , maybe slightly stiffer battens, carbon mast but not too stiff up top.
If the surface was rough , like Lefroy last year, I suspect some 8" back wheels and a 6"front would be a great combination
but then it wouldnt fit in a really neat compact bag for travelling
but first do some serious racing practice against a well sailed mini..
try to set up a course with upwind tackingand downwind tacking, and look at your previous tyre marks looking for inprovement
with a flatter sail you will lose some initial acceleration that blokarts do better on a downwind leg, but learning to accelerate and sail downwind is one of the specialty aspects of landyachts , as opposed to blowies.

Arjay said...

So I have a Blokart. I enjoy the racing and friendships that come with the one design idea.

....BUT.....

If I were to enter in the mini class what do you recommend altering to the basic frame/sail/mast to make it go quicker??

We have an x-sail sailing with us that has a Goacher sail, carbon mast and boom, diy pod, 16:1 downhaul, 10:1 adjustable on the fly internalised outhaul system and it goes like stink! In a light breeze it can be the only thing that moves on the airfield. Its owner has taken a lot of time working on it, and he is well practised in it as well. The Seagull MC2 i use is faster in a lot of places than a standard blowie...but there is no place or wind direction where I can keep up with the x-sail......yet!

Cheers Col