Nebian,
Thanks for that.
Although the Carbon was a success in it's own right it didn't really come up to scratch as Spine material, not even the 2 thicknesses, remember I used 1 mast base of lineal, helical mixed and 1 of Spiral wound inserted inside. This gave the Spine the required strength but didn't stop the Twisting and the mast laid over quite badly along with the front wheel.
What you are seeing is a completely new front end replacing the Carbon Fiber section. I remove the Steering Head from the old spine, upgraded it and welded it into the new 1 7/8" Od x 3 mm Tube. The Mast Step is therefore Metal, ex 2.5" 3.6mm tube which allowed for the cutting and wrapping. The new front section just slipped into the "T" and is Pined and Clamped in place. There was some discrepancy between the 2 tubes which, as luck would have it was able to be sleeved down to suit both sections. Damn! I love it when a plan comes together! As for the Rest it is just as Sc Mk1 had it.

The Cat lives again Mark 2 (I wonder how many times I can rebuild it? Mk9, perhaps??) Least ways I think it does, I walked away from it when I took the pic's and it tried to put itself away in the shed again[}:)][}:)]
Can't wait for the wind to pick up again
Ron

cisco said...

landyacht said...
i have learnt that the most comfy existence is to have all 3 wheels the same so the most worn tyre can be put on the front

It is interesting to note that many of the top blokart sailors use the big front fork and have the same wheels all round as you did at Yeppoon Paul.

So!
Further to that lot. Is keeping to the same wheels all around as efficient as using a Narrower, perhaps taller wheel to steer?? It would strike me that the later would give more grip where as the fore would have a tendency to slide on the surface of the ground.?? Hey! Just asking is all. You guys have "Been There, Done That" if not then by now you Bleedin' well should have![}:)]


#*#*#*#*#*#*##*#* HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!!!!!#*#*#*#*#*#**#*#

Ron

This always makes my head hurt. Partly because flop-over steering just works so differently from other styles; so maybe things we learn from cars and bicycles are just wrong.
Seems to me caster, the angle of the steering pivot, affects trail more than the other way round. You can change the trail without changing the caster (Just flip the fork around on a bicycle), but if you change the caster it will change the trail. On 'C' style fronts like original PM you have caster like a car or go kart being the only thing to adjust; trail will just happen if you tip the top of the steering pivot back (whether you should or not is hotly debated). On bicycle or flop-over style pretty much anything you change on the forks changes the trail and the handling. If you forget about side loads (which a lot of folks here say is a really bad idea) what trail/caster does is cause self centering, because turning the wheel raises the chassis and gravity wants it to be as low as possible.

A weird thing about 'C'style "hook" fronts is that turning right and turning left have slightly different geometry (unless you dish the wheel and put the pivot right on the centerline of the wheel/tire) turning one way moves the wheel forward; turning the other moves it back. Peculiarer and peculiarer.

Thanks Lads,
I took the Bit between my teeth and went for it. The Pic's are evidence.





I like the alignment of the rear wheels I rolled the chassis up the drive to check out the wheel tracking at one point OR decided to go back to the other end It is only a very gentle slope, probably 150mm over 25mtrs. So I decided to see if it would do the same thing forward. Yep equally as easily it just rolled off on it's ownsome. "The Contact Patch" is at the trailing edge of the Contact area if the tire Giving a slight Lead.
One may say it is going to do well on the beach (Fingers X'ed).

Ok keep in mind, I have reinforced the Steering head with a 7/8" Solid rod.
Ron

Agreed, I think the yacht looks great. If I wasn't currently playing around with the mini's I'd seriously consider a class 5 size machine.

Therefore I must ask you to keep inspiration material to a minimum

Blame it on the unions...

HALP! Steering. Sensitivity. Heavy Steering etc.




The image is about the action of the wheel, for those that know my dilemma.
Because the Steering Tiller action is is at 30degrees to perpendicular/vertical it is a very hard ask for an horizontal action to be converted to a 60degree rotary action. Given what I have tested on the Razor I believe it will be so sensitive though the first 30 degrees of the steering with this flop over type steering. How do I damp this and without interfering with the amount of turn of the machine I noticed the same thing with SC's steering. You have only the wriggle your butt in settling and the Cat does some serious zigzagging. I think this problem would apply with either the Solid Rod Push Pull system of the Cable Pull Pull System. The only way I can see clear in this problem is to use a Quadrant on the Steering head and convert from horizontal to 60Deg' either by Pull Pull Cables and Block Sheaves or use something like a couple of Truck Speedo' Cables, which I fear would have a big problem with sand.

HALP!

Ron

In the early days of the rollover we used a bellcrank on the Glen5R, until someone else came along with a straight pushrod with a winsurfer flex joint which worked at least as well, was cheaper, simpler and had not bits to get sandy coal dust into. Since then always used a pushrod. Personally I have never sailed a yacht which has cables which I liked. I did say personally!
Another case where you can "over theorise" methinks!
You can learn a lot from pushing the yacht around by the back of the seat. Push one way to steer left etc. Again personally I like the steering to be free, I guess there are people who would introduce stiffness in the steering of their car but....

Just tighten your pivot boltso it does not fall over when you lift the front of the yacht. This will also help strengthen you legs. Remember us oldies need regular exercise.

I have tried the Push Pull in experimentation and can only get a little over 45deg with the Push and can drag the wheel further over in Pull.
What is the normal best layover with this Style Layover ?? I am thinking up other methods of controlling the steering head,
Ron

Just checked out my class5 45 degrees total 22.5 degrees each way
I have never felt short of steering angle something usually starts sliding first
either front or back [on the beach]

The Promo steering has the 'fork' parallel to ground and spine with no lead or trail.
It also has pushrod with very little slop. This is similar to photo in "Plans or specs for OTT class 5 build by Clemco refering to Imac duo.

Ron.
I think you are about to try something that the club88' use for steering
cheers
aus230

Its not the type of setup I would use, but it certainly works well on the club88's. Maybe someone can give more info on how it came about, It seems to be only used on the club88's in WA(I will get a close up pic this weekend)
cheers
aus230

Well sensibly speaking, there are a few machines out there with Front ends that are detachable. Now some adventurous person owning one of theses may well like to construct a front end that will do the testing and perhaps publish a comparison between the types. That person just may will receive local accolades for their effort. Hmmmmm
There is nothing like full-scale testing. Actually riding the beast as it performs, will give more accurate info than a model as one feels the subtleties as they occur.
Ron