landyacht said...

had the same dilemna when the promo rules were introduced.
We were asked to comment on each of the propsed rules, and most of the material specs were not available in Australia. none of the question we had were answered , then the rules were passed.
when talking later to the Guys from "Airtrack" a french manufacturer, they explained that All the french manufacturers get together once a year and put in an order to the mill for the Aluminium. no one manufacturer was big enough to get a load for themselves. On the whole , the promo idea is great, if 20 years too late, but the specs count out all the other countries that wanted to get involved.
The South american fleet got to exist mainly because FISLY helped them get a big batch of Ally and wheels to South America. The insistence of a full length chassis means it doesnt pull down for transport.
all in all , a good idea , poorly executed

What has FISLY done for the sport in Australia none that i know of ,but appear to look after the europeans etc,may be we should look else where.
With the current finacial conditions i doubt that many ausies will be travelling over seas where we would be required to stick to the FISLY rules

Vic I like the look of your new Class 5 and I notice that the frame arrangement
with the drop down front spar attachment is common in some French yachts
A local sailor here tried the drop down idea but gave it away as he said the twisting of the frame under load affected the front end
Have you noticed this happening?
Had some good winds over the weekend here a couple of guys hit 97kph on a good smooth beach Not me I dont have a small sail the big one seems too draggy when its overpowered a bit scary too

Hi Kiwi307
I agree with you. If the FISLY rules are the overiding rules every thing is covered .
as long as it fits within the specs.
Cheers
AUS230

At the sandgropers you have to be seated with the seat belt on at the start line. That is fine by me as it is a local rule at that club. Thems the rules
Cheers
AUS230

aus230 said...

At the sandgropers you have to be seated with the seat belt on at the start line. That is fine by me as it is a local rule at that club. Thems the rules
Cheers
AUS230

That was one of the rules we grappled with when the 'gropers first came to NZ in 82.(or was that 81?)
A few major breakages of toe bones, and ALL the cartilages on the top of a persons foot persuaded us that that rule is not only not spectator appealing, but actually dangerous.
When designing a new yacht there are reasons to understand why the yacht you are inspired by, did what they did. Delta axles were originally done to make easier pushing. Subsequently other thoughts were put forward about shorter central torsion tubes etc. The OTT (over the top) and YOTT (Yorker over the top) yachts were originally to clean up the bottom drag through deep water as on most Euro beaches. The aero drag is much worse than some other designs, but water stops you awfully quick if you misread it on a Euro beach. (Enough to lose 30+ places in a typical class 5 Euro race, I know cos I did it!) Why copy it for a salt lake?

Kiwi307
I built aus230 for the fun of building it and the frustation that comes with something different. It may not be the best yacht around but its great fun trying to make it work. I had problems with the wheel angles at first but that has been overcome. No problem with the bearings they did 2 years before failing. Had some problem with wheel seperation where the tube section met the disk (To high tyre pressure on hot days), Had no problems the last few meetings. The maxxis hookworm tyres are excelent (we all get punches at safety bay.by spinifex grass)
The yacht goes as quick as the club88, I am being outsailed on most occasions because of the very good sailers at the sandgropers. (me not the yacht) Thanks for your info
Cheers
AUS230

kiwi307 said...

Talk to Paul, Bill Finch and others about this one!
What has FISLY done for the sport in Oz could always be countered with "what has the sport in Aus done for FISLY".
Take this as it's meant, very tongue in cheek.
In reality though, any organisation is only as good as those who participate in the organisation. It's very easy to sit back and criticise, but if you give no help to make it better, you don't really have a hell of a lot of credibility.
All the members of the hierarchy are volunteers who do sail now or have sailed in the past, trying to assist the sport however they can.
I also believe that when both our countries had active participants at committee level a lot was achieved to bridge gaps. That was in the past, as those participants moved on, and were not replaced.
Is it a good thing to have 2 separate and parallel rules? Personally I don't think so. When Pacrim was first established in 1986, trying to get the 3 countiries involved to agree on a common set of rules was a nightmare. When a very slightly modified FISLY rule set was adopted, a lot of difficulties disappeared

The whole thing does get complicted doesnt it , probably the biggest thing slowing Australia down has been the lack of continuity over time, hopefully with the introduction of faster communications, more awareness of landyachting, things will improve . you never know what the future will bring

Hiko, what tyre pressure are you using?
The other thing that may be a factor is that your neat little suspension thing WILL be changing the front end geometry every time it flexes. A bit like having the castor on your car changing over every suspension movement. On a car it's called bump steer and exceptionally undesirable.

Hey Hiko, as I had the first OTT and then the first YOTT in NZ which OBSS copied I do have a bit of background.
The reason for the rubber ball which Mike Hampton(originator of these) drew on the yachts has nothing to do with front end, more to slow down the shaking of the rig. Also had an effect on the ripply euro beaches. IMHO it is unneccesary in NZ. With all the yachts I sailed in the later years the front weight was found to be a performance factor, as well as the river thing I commented a few posts up. All my yachts were built using a magic weighing device with the pilot aboard and rigged. That device was the second finger on my wifes' left hand! If she could just pick up the front wheel, it was good, easy and it was too light, too hard=too heavy. This worked on all the 5's, the class 3, and I tuned my Standart to that in Europe too, and it worked!
I never ran a front tyre more than about 15psi, in fact I can't remember ever putting a gauge on one.If it didn't deflect under thumb pressure it was too hard! Is your tyre a stiff construction? If so even less!
To quote Jean Phillippe Krischer (Mr Seagull) the most prolific landyacht builder ever, "the yacht must answer the conditions you are sailing". Hard surface, hard tyres hard chassis, steady wind, stiff chassis, gusty wind, flexi chassis etc. Ripply beach, softer tyres, supple sidewalls. Etc etc ad nauseum!

Thanks for all that Its good for a newby like me to get a bit of background info
so we can move forward with ideas instead of going over old ground that didnt work before
I have some things to try out then and see if I can nail this turning thing
I know what you mean about the bashing across rivers with the front end high in the air sometimes the bank on the other side is quite steep!

Quite weekend with Crazey Trave and Landyacht at Lake Lefroy

Since the wheel vibration was happening on smooth salt when turning I suspect that adding suspension would be akin to replacing the front wheel with a super bouncy ball!!!!!!.
my feeling is that the long narrow contact patch of the rear wheels is resisting, Vic reckons hes sailing with a tiny bit of toe out?maybe there is a need to try neutral or toe in.

Gidday to all,
outside the norm, if it's a real problem, shudder, it would seem to me "unscientific" that some where, there needs to be a little give/readjust/realign momentarily to compensate from the straight ahead or least resistance steering position. I would think a live rear end, where your two parallel wheels moved in a slightly compensatory circular direction with your steering wheel Think about it , it has been used in self tracking trailers on huge road trains fro many years and they operate at high speeds, heavy loads, rough terrain, idiot operators. I would recon that about 100mm both ways from straight ahead would produce a superior handling chassis
Now i want to nominate a experimental builder......LANDYACHT [}:)]...need a seconder, to give it a try.....cheers... joe

Gidday Landy...
just googled Kurt Johannsen self tracking trailers. I can picture a thin ethnic connection to your "Viking" builder Sorenson. Both in their own way contributed heaps to what we now have. Maybe marry a couple of great ideas and a new plane could emerge. just a thought...cheers ....joe

NIce Clemco very nice - can you put a close up pic of the yacht in? I love the colour