Why grant would want to modify the best bar on the market,i do not know.I think people need to pay attention and setup their gear exactly how it is designed to be setup.If grant had the leash connected to the right place and was riding in override mode this wouldn't have happened.I fly a sb2 and always ride in override mode so if anything happens you only have to take your hands off the bar and it will slowly make it's way to the edge of the wind window,(this will happen even if a front or back line break).I strongly recommend every cab owner to ride in override mode.These kites have no bar pressure,you can pull the bar in with your pinky if you wanted to.The only reason why you wouldn't ride in override is if you wanted to perform a deadman trick. If anyone knows of any other trick that can only be done while not in override let us know. cheers!
p.s. waveslave, your attitude to kite leashes stinks,and don't listen to walshd and get a rev cause the bar is a poorly made piece of rubbish.get a switchy and set it up to how it is designed to be setup.You won't look back!!!

graceful said...

wave slave

why are they stupid dumb handle passes???

can u not do them??

A huge vertical carve up the face with a big hit in the critical section....
Can a handle-pass top that ?
lol.

I cannot believe that "kitesurferg" (supposedly an experienced kiter) could put down an explanation like the list of points he provided and expect anyone to accept those as some form of justification for the debacle.
But even ignoring all of that side of the debate, as someone else said, things can always go wrong when you are kiting.
THAT IS WHY WE SHOULDN'T KITE AT CROWDED BEACHES.
ESPECIALLY BONDI WHERE (apart from it already being banned) THERE IS FLOTILLA OF CAMERAS CONSTANTLY SCANNING THE BEACH FOR ANY/EVERY INCIDENT TO BE SCREENED AUST WIDE.

Completely unnecessary, totally selfish, egotistical, brain dead behaviour -4Y

Good luck to NSWKBA & AKSA in their damage control efforts.

I think I am starting to understand what wave slave is on about.....( a worry in its self) but having been in a death loop situation two times now , once due to a line break i got dragged up the beach over some rocks and through a car park. My handle pass loop broke on 1 side and i was being dragged backwards and high speed attached only by my suicide, i could not reach the realease. The kite eventually got caught in a high fence and I survived. The second time my lines looped around my harness hook and it took a super human effort(driven by fear as a 13m kite in 25 knots develops enormous pull in a death loop)to get the lines off the hook and get things under control before I hit the beach.
Do I understand you wavey?, when you are suggesting that there is a design oppurtunity here and in certain conditions it would be safer without being attached to the suicide??????
In most machinery were the torque generated by a machine can cause damage if something goes wrong there is a shear pin or something designed to break automatically. Perhaps something along these lines is needed at say ...200kgs of pull, it would automatically realease.

Don't forget, the suicide leash setup is not a design feature of any kite. As far as I understand it all kites these days are sold with a flagging or depowering leash setup. I'm not sure what the issue with Cabrinhas is since I've never seen one close up, but my point is that suicide leashing is an 'after-market' practice carried out by people wanting their kite to stay powered when they let go of it. It's called 'suicide' for a reason.

Ahh, now I see...

Waveslave dude, take it easy.

I see your point of view with leashes but surely you can see everyone else's opinion that is is just plain stupid not to use a leash on public beaches.
Learners read these forums and usually believe what is said.

I do agree with you to some degree but surely you have to agree with the rest of us about the dangers of not using a leash.

I could have bagged the crap out of cabrinha but some people like their barsetup. I dont like it and I dont think Cabrinha should be encouraging people to ride suicide. So yah maybe there is an issue with cabrinhas bar setup but i'm opening a can of worms here.

There is every type of bar setup, safety leash, quick release, chicken loops. ect. on the market nowdays. Just remember before you buy to check out these systems and if you dont like them then there is probably a system on the market that you do like.

walshd said...

Waveslave dude, take it easy.

I do agree with you to some degree but surely you have to agree with the rest of us about the dangers of not using a leash.

I'm chilled.
I'm not the one screaming out in capital letters telling the members to shut their ears (or eyes).
lol.
But how many times do I need to repeat myself ?
I have strict criteria for leashless kiting.
It's not for everyone....but it's a valid option.

Now....onto suicide leashes.
Greenpat is perfectly correct, of course.
The suicide leash set-up is an 'after-market' practice.
After triggering the release and going to 'suicide'.....
the kiter will have no control of the bar and no direct control of the kite for a period of time.
The kiter will only be connected to the flying kite by a single tensioned leash.
The kite will be still in 4-line flying mode so therefore is quite capable of repowering in a rogue gust.
Releasing and going to suicide is generally practiced in the show-pony zone.

My leashless set-up is the polar-opposite to the suicide.
Because I never unhook, I'm always attached to the kite by the depower-line.
My C-loop is foolproof connected and I have instant fingertip access (at the bar) to my double flag-loops (left & right).....
offering 100% depower, *this is the important bit*
offering 100% depower from a single flag line (unlike the suicide set-up).

So who's the bad-guy ?
The suicide jockey or me ??

WAVE SLAVE..

i have not been kiteing as long as alot of people on here but i have been surfing all my life and imo a s bend 3,slim chance(only tech kiteing tricks) im doing(nearly doing) atm are aalot hardeer than a top turn or a nice cut back

Marty Coffey said...

Just for the record, kite surfing is officially banned at Bondi. Simple as that. Paradoxically, the lifegaurds are 100% OK with it after they take the flags down, but it's a bit like driving a car without insurance. You want to make damn sure you don't f**k up.

this sounds a lot like ski-patrol 'policy'.

Out-of-bound areas are unofficially open to whoever wants to use them, as long as you don't go there while the ski-patrol are at work. Come 4.30 what they don't see they don't worry about, it's all at your own risk. but look out if you need their help - they'll kick your ass, take your seasons pass, and leave you waiting for an ambulance at the gate.

Bondi has got a fair bit of sand from waters edge to the wall, more than enough Ok **** time to do something in a despirate situation.

So that means that there are 4 levels of saftey have failed, firstly common sense, secondly the "unlimited depower" , thirdly the going to the "safety leash" and then the safety on the safety leash.

Perhaps a safety on the safety will make a difference and cancell out the requirement for common sense.

My leash is a pain constantly tangling around the chicken loop line after each rotation. So I agree with slave, they are **** and dont work well, but in the interest of not getting bashed after my kite flies down the beach and cleans up some grandma, I untangle it regularly and especially before approaching the beach to land.

stamp said...

waveslave said...

[

Releasing and going to suicide is generally practiced in the show-pony zone.

for this read "i am too scared/set in my ways/stuck in my rut to unhook or try new things so i will label progressive riding as show-ponying, and instead will stick to wave cruising hooked in to a kite with a clutch."

Well Stamp,
I don't unhook cause I don't kite flatwater, I'm not interested in tricks.
All I do is jump waves, ride waves.

As far as wavekiting unhooked goes.....I'm not convinced it looks that great.
I watch vids of unhooked riders bottom-turning....
They seem to have their gay arses stuck up in the air like they've got a stick up their bum.
One arm is always straight up reaching for the stars....
and the rider looks like an orangatan hanging from a tree branch.
I'm sorry,
but Mick Fanning's bottom-turns just don't look like that.
lol.

yeah umm sorry to interupt but what time is bondi rescue on?
cheers

kiterdan said...

Slave, if your anti-leash for what appears to be valid reasons (to an extent), what are your thoughts on fifth line kites then?

Hi Dan,
I've always believed a 5-liner like the one from NEW kites had a pretty clever and safe flagging system.
But it's not for me.
I'm not too fond of that extra flying line.....
and I'm more of a flat kite guy myself.
Cheers.

stamp said...

slave, i don't care how, what, when or where you ride, its your choice and your stoke. but please stop pretending that what you do is difficult or innovative.

anybody can do what you do. strapped and hooked in to a bow kite in the waves is the easiest, least skilled form of kiting there is.
sorry to break it to you, i know you see yourself as "sowing the seeds of change"

Who said what I do is difficult ??
Both wavekiting and kiteboarding are the easiest watersports you could ever do.
Any kook can achieve it.....even you Stamp.
lol.
And by the way, high performance surfing is the coolest sport on the blue planet...and the most difficult.