I can see a TOOL

what the heck is that?

Yep I guess its strutlees not gutless ! LOL

Heres the Vid (had been posted previously on SB but took a few moments to find it again !! )



I reckon it can hold the title of 'strutless' because the struts you can see in waveslave's photo are actually the 'swept back' leading edge.

Either way - looks cool!! and see the way it TURNS !!! - In one shot of the vid it shows a couple of them flying so al least a few of them must have been made - anyone know the maker/brand?

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/Strutless-kite-video-maui/?SearchTerms=strutless,kite

It's like building a Hybrid Toyota... f#(k!ng pointless.

I haven't ridden this one in particular but have ridden similar prototypes and found them to be horrible... Can you tell me what the point is, why it would be any better than having struts and indeed what makes this one in particular more special than any other no-strut proto I've flown/seen before???

Because if my terrible Physics is anything to go by, no "no-strut" kite EVER is going to be good for high-end kiteboarding. Its like building a car with Hexagon wheels and saying "wow! look it works!" then getting hyped about it. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Perfect examples of just this were prototypes of "super flat Bows". There was tons of hype and rabble on the internet about how they were amazing and how they would be the next big thing... obviously they were never going to be, but you easily could have bought into the hype about it.

p.s.
Even kites with no middle strut are terrible in my opinion for a number of reasons.

sir ROWDY said...
... Correct me if I'm wrong here.
...

You're wrong. If it works ... it works. If not, who cares? We'll find out when/if they make it to the market.

The only negative I can see up front is having the sail of the kite sitting on the sand when the kite is at rest. I hate getting sand and dust on my kites.

sir ROWDY said...
"If it works it works"... yep great logic there, thanks for that insightful bit of information.

Major negatives of design (off the top of my head).

1. Extreme leech flutter.
2. Extreme canopy flutter in higher winds or when powered.
3. Wear on beach from flutter in wind and against sand.
4. Very hard to carry pumped up especially in a sheltered environment.
5. Crash it in the waves and you're fingered.
6. Flys like a plastic bag.

You Ba$tard Rowdy!!!!! I've got to clean the coffee spray off my keyboard now.

I told you I have flown similar prototypes before and have tested many "different" and seemingly "weird" designs before. Thus I DO know something about it and I am speaking from my personal experiences. This is a forum and I am expressing my valid opinion.

Take it or leave it.

p.s. My prediction is no good kiter will ever be riding this design.

My prediction ( and its only a prediction), is some of sir rowdys predictions will be true. But I feel it will work well in light winds for cruising etc. but we will see.

Did you watch the video sir ROWDY? It doesn't look like much fluttering to me.. And I know what fluttering is, just look at me mother in laws thighs

Lambie- Thanks for posting one of the videos. There's been a couple painfully amateur videos since. Next on the to-do list is some stuff on bar tuning, which would be my two cents on kites in general, not just these.

sir ROWDY- I see things differently. My experience has been that no single description of a piece can necessarily define how they will work for sure. Not the number of struts in a kite or the number of fins in a board. So, when you say similar, I imagine this means similar looking. But I think most riders have ridden plenty of kites that look nearly identical, but ride completely different. I hope you'll agree.

I get your skepticism that my design is a gimmick. That's your call. And its all good with me. But unlike a car with hexagon wheels, this kite uses the same foil profiles as everything else. Not trying to reinvent lift. Now, if the question was stability, that's where I imagined the concept would fail, but we had to try to see. I've been amazed, and that's why I've continued to pursue it to this point.

Yeah, bummer that the flat bow hype didn't seem to yield anything of value to sport. But I did see that as obvious at the time. I haven't played with the concept, but definitely hope to in the future.

I've flown other brand kites without middle strut and been super stoked. How come you find them terrible?

From your following posts:
What is your motivation to make a list of claims about negatives of a design for a kite you've never flown?
Contrary to your claim, there's less leach flutter than any kite I've seen with struts. I could elaborate as to why I think that is, but I don't imagine you'll be receptive to my ideas anyway.
Canopy only flutters when you sheet out, not when your powered. This was part of our goal for depower handling.
Sits way flatter on the beach, so less flapping around in the wind.
Its insanely easy to carry.
Crashing any kite in waves sucks. I've gotten the feeling that it can bend better to absorb the hits making it more durable.
I'm stoked on how it flies, or I wouldn't be banking my life on it. Please keep in mind that this stuff is personal. I respect your right to an opinion. Please respect the importance of this to me. If you'd have flown it and posted that its a piece of crap I could better accept your negativity.

stabber- Don't know what to say.

Gorgo- Thanks.

eppo- Original concept was only to stick with what we know best from the riding conditions here. Depower and durability were initial interests. Meaning, it was about high wind. As we got into development we were still motivated by these, but had found even more exciting aspects in how crazy the kites were able to twist for steering. We were still only on the 6 and 8 and fired up on the performance there. It was only then that we thought to explore what would happen in lighter wind. The results speak for themselves. But that's all to say light wind cruizing wasn't the original goal.

pearl- 8-)

Haydn24- 8-)

pirrad- 9 would be too obvious, no? (Thanks.)

I'm just finishing up this reply and see Kitepower's comment. Ouch! "So called"? I'm about hype and publicity? Really? Damn. I suck.

bordridemaui said...

I've flown other brand kites without middle strut and been super stoked. How come you find them terrible?

Actually ...

There aren't many brands without a middle strut.

But I'm stoked to fly a kite with no central strut,

cause I quite like the extra drive that it offers.

When you remove the drag from the engine-room of a kite,

you can only get more horsepower.

Folks say that the middle strut is the spine of a kite,

but the main-sock is the backbone.

The struts are only the ribs.

Love your work Maui dude,

Keep it flowing.

sir ROWDY said...
I just hope I will remember about this thread when this kite never gets properly used (i.e. freestyle, kiteloops and "kiteboarding") by anyone...
But the real question is when should I dig it back up? I mean how long will I need to wait before it's properly classified as a flop???

Probably next week mate.

tightlines said...
It doesn't seem right when I agree with Rowdy but sometimes I just do.

Yeah I am of the same opinion on this issue.

Its also like comparing the performance (speed and glide) of a hang glider (frame/struts) v's a paraglider (no frame/no struts)