sir ROWDY said...

junglist said...
An actual decent review of the Boardriding Maui kites, rather than a bunch of uninformed loud mouths sounding off:

www.thekiteboarder.com/2013/04/tkb-review-2013-boardriding-maui-cloud-strutless-kite/

Yeah because we all know kite-mags give completely unbiased legit reviews... .

Well at least they have flown the thing. I would rather take the opinion of somebody who has actually experienced the product over someone who has not. Call me strange but there you have it.

I read the review :" Riders who do not like to hear or see their canopy flapping may have a hard time adusting to the Cloud" , they then go on to mention trailing edge flutter at the upper end of the range. Personally , I hate to see and hear my kite flutter, most of the time. I only like it (a little )when I've lost my balls after instinctively pushing the bar away when going a bit bigger than anticipated .

Anyone technically minded could imagine the stress on the fabric during flap and flutter , esp at the upper wind range of the kite. I think I see longevity issues here . Thinking further about the the material and labour cost savings to the manufacturer when dumping the struts , it would have to be considerably cheaper to produce, this would have to be reflected in the retail price, to get my $$$ anyway , J

Anyone using the Trip or Cloud for light wind wave riding ??

EastCC said..
Must be the latest craze

Yep! No Macca Kites here.

BennyB12 said..

I count two struts...

That's the a Fly (2 struts), the Trip is struttless - due to the light weight of this design/concept, surely it would excel in light wind ??

INTHELOOP said..

without struts the canopy and structure of kite def breaks down a lot quicker making the kite stretch and it flies like a towel after a few months of use.

Nothing beats 5 struts i reckon.

But think about all the travel possibilities...

NEWS JUST IN!!! - Ozone creates no-strut, no ILE kite!!! Making all one, two, three, four and five strut ILE kites obsolete!!! "Now you can travel with more kites than ever before!"

scissors and a pick can sort you a travel kite, cut off all the struts (bit of weight in bladders), unpick all reinforcements, buffers etc. kites fly better lighter (struts do help tho!) companies will not sell them as they are not durable tho DIY....

kitesurfbali said..

Guys I tried 2 Strut less kites! Both brands in the market since last year.. AND they SUCK...
Low end is comparable to same size of any decent kite!!
Flapping.. Good luck with every time you turn the damn thing..
Waves, please forger about it... They are not balanced..
Up wind not that good and as soon as wind gust you can see that the foil change shape and the kite pull down wind allot!!!

They do turn quite fast but with not much power.
Relaunch yeah 50-50 and depend how they fell in the water.. They like to stick to it...

A local school here started to use them and they gave up after few months...
Also wearing.. As they flap so much the material tend to wear out much faster then a battened kite.
What are you saving on weight against a 3 struts kite? 1 kilos? How can that make any difference when you are traveling..

YOu are just getting sucked in the BS that kite companies tell you to make you buy a new kite!!
Come on think about windsurfing and sailing.. There is a reason why they put battens!!!

ALSO You remove all the struts: dacron and tubes. They should cost 50% less. Reality NOT...
Wake up..
Bye Jankie

For a shop owner you are the man jinki......like your post.......
Now dont get the ****s on when a customer tea bags fag bags some of your stock .

Saw one of these in action in 15kts today

Had more flap then a seagull even with the bar stuffed in.

Another vote here for keeping things struted for now

kitesurfbali said..

ALSO You remove all the struts: dacron and tubes. They should cost 50% less. Reality NOT...
Wake up..
Bye Jankie

Here is a kite designers view on the strut less Kites

I have run workshops where we get a group of people to hand make inflatable strut kites with a pair scissors and a sewing machine in a community center. It takes a few weeks, but you end up with a kite that costs about $300 in materials and $3000 worth of your time.

Struts
Looking at a 3 strut kite, to make a strut, you cut 2 pieces of material and sew them together, its the easiest and fastest part of making the kite. The materials in the strut is not a lot and its Dacron which is cheaper than the canopy material, so the saving on 3 struts is not alot. Defiantly not %50 cheaper to make a kite. %5 to 20% max i think as labor and canopy is a main cost.

Profile
on a 10m or 12m the profile in a kite is set at about 10 for all round lift ( amount of curve from LE to TE. )
If you have no struts, i can see the strut less kites make the profile less curve (5 to 8 ) and or add a ton of battens to keep the profile curve in shape. A less profile kite should have less lift, upwind and power. Adding battens to a kite adds weight and can damage the canopy when packing up or dumping in waves or over time. Less curve and lift + battens to replace struts does not sound like a good alternative to me.

Weight
The idea of a lighter kite sounds good, on a 17m kite its 1kg from kites I have weighed from a strut less kite to a 3 strut kite, thats not alot, strut less kites tend to have much larger leading edges ( heavy Dacron, heavy bladder material more weight ) A strutted kite can have a smaller LE.

Flutter
I think there is no way possible to have a strut less, batten less, 10 profile kite that does not flap in non ideal conditions. In the perfect conditions it should be great, but light wind, gusty, hard turning, or strong wind kite loops they should flap a lot. This is not good for durability or wind range.

Relaunch
If the kite hits the water at a odd angle and the canopy flattens onto the water, relaunch should be much harder. If you crash the kite with tension in the canopy relaunch will be easy as.

Time to bring on the rage from the strut less crew?

So to summarise:

Benefits actually raised so far for strutless design -
1. You can travel with more kites (debatable as to whether it really makes much difference, but I guess in theory you can).
2. Apparently you can ride a 7m in 12m conditions (Not proven, but I also don't understand why you would want to).
3. In theory should take less time to pump (Although as mentioned now LE must be thicker to compensate no strut support, so it's probably not that much quicker).

Disadvantages so far -
1. Increased TE flutter.
2. Decreased lifespan.
3. Relaunch can be tricky sometimes.
4. Crash in the waves your pretty screwed.
5. Not really much cheaper.
6. Decreased top end performance.

Can someone tell me why this product is good again??? Can anyone say Naish Sigma???... Say it real slow like how Dr Evil in Austin Powers says "Magma"... SIGGGMAAAAA...

eabmoto said..

Kiteing a wave that's pretty far off shore, I was in Maui when I saw it, in 7m conditions. It's nice to be able to get back to the beach when the wind drops. That's why I might be on a 7 in 12m conditions,

I don't really think that's a true advantage (or good reason to ride) of one of these kites to be honest, although I could be wrong. What if the wind drops completely? I think it would be better to properly assess the conditions than bargain on having a 7 that works in 12m conditions... I'm not saying you are going to do this but the moment they start preaching stuff like this I can see kooks worldwide getting stuck out in the ocean everywhere hahaha.

eabmoto said..but yeah, all this is just talk till you or I ride one of these, and then it's all personal preference.

I have actually tried a few of these No-strut and One-strut kites...

sir ROWDY said..

eabmoto said..

Kiteing a wave that's pretty far off shore, I was in Maui when I saw it, in 7m conditions. It's nice to be able to get back to the beach when the wind drops. That's why I might be on a 7 in 12m conditions,

I don't really think that's a true advantage (or good reason to ride) of one of these kites to be honest, although I could be wrong. What if the wind drops completely? I think it would be better to properly assess the conditions than bargain on having a 7 that works in 12m conditions... I'm not saying you are going to do this but the moment they start preaching stuff like this I can see kooks worldwide getting stuck out in the ocean everywhere hahaha.

eabmoto said..but yeah, all this is just talk till you or I ride one of these, and then it's all personal preference.

I have actually tried a few of these No-strut and One-strut kites...

Come to that it's actually pretty stupid especially if the wind died completely. I'd rather self rescue on a kite with struts...I think this could be a big issue with these. Shark bait much?

Fold the kite in half maybe? Wing tip to wing tip, then roll the canopy around the leading edge and put your harness around it.