Unfortunately sometimes Kite surfing can be a very dangerous sport at times, I had one death loop experience about 5 or 6 years ago, I was out in about 35knots of wind doing jumps and tricks as per normal, I was doing great until I stuffed up on one my kite loops, the kite stalled and fell out of the sky, just before the kite hit the water my chicken loop unhooked, anyway just as I had pulled back the bar the kite went into a death loop, the problem was one of the back lines was wrapped around the bar and my left hand as well, I tried to free my hand by pulling at it and using my other hand but it was impossible, after about 8 kite loops the kite hit the water which gave me a second to catch my breath, but there was not enough time to free my hand, and then all of a sudden the kite starts spinning again, after about another 6 or 8 kite loops the kite hits the water again, this time around I finally pull my hand free, it took about 1 minute to free my hand the lines had been wrapped around so tight, if the kite had starting spinning again I probably would of drowned. Even if I had a knife it would been very hard to cut myself free. Sometimes freak accidents occur and there is nothing you can do about it, I have been Kite surfing since 1998 and this has only happened to me once, but it just goes to show experience means nothing when it comes to kite surfing, when your time is up there is not much you can do about it. But until then I say kite surf as much as possible. Cheers

I had a great session yesterday at my local, came home, read about this accident, so went back down to the garage and checked my near new Dakine harness for the knife and to my surprise, found that it had gone! I must admit that is one of the things that I don't regularly check, but will now. Maybe all of us that carry a knife should check and see that it is actually there!!

sir ROWDY said..

I've been saying this for a while now, but, no amount of re-designed/improved safety release systems are going to fix this problem... to fix the problem you must fix the cause and 99% of the time the cause of an out of control looping kite is those silly big "end-winders" most brands have as stock now. YES those things that look like a golf club head on the end of bars. Like on Cab bars, they are a joke and they have caused many potentially fatal incidents I have witnessed first-hand. Usually a line or the handle pass leash gets caught up on the angles or bulk of the end winder and is enough to keep the kite looping until it hits something solid.

This has happened to me on a few occasions.

If hooked in it usually involves going underwater with open eyes to try and identify/untangle the line which has wrapped around the bar. Releasing to safety doesn't usually help due to the tangle.

If unhooked, well only option is to release the whole thing.

The topic made me think about my hook knife and where it was etc..

I check my harness, Pat Love Quest, it has a puch for it.. took it out and while cleaning it it basically fell apart. The plastic has degraded with time, possibly about 4 years old. It broke at the end where it secures the little blade in place.

So if I was going to need it, I'd be in trouble as it would not only not cut but fall apart when I needed it most.

So go and check the integrity of your plastic ones and the blades. Just like the lines - if it looks like its dying or has weak points BIN IT and get a new one.

I now have 2 on the way already, one for each harness..

Peace up and good winds.

Condolences to the fellow kiter and his family..

The moral of this thread is manufacturers we need a quick release harness!

Fun45 said..

sir ROWDY said..
I have been working on bars with catch-free ends for years now..

Just read through this topic for the first time out of interest. Out of curiosity, if the end-winder is the issue, surely that can be resolved from a design perspective. What have been your ideas and why have they been rejected? I can think of several ways to have a catch-free bar that still has an end-winder (at least in theory they may work).

The thing is, if there is a " [ " shape in the end winder to roll the lines on there will always be potential to catch a leash or line on that. Also if the end winder is large enough to have this shape recessed into it, it has far greater potential of catching a leash or line even on a part that seems as though it wouldn't snag a line at all... let experience and others accidents and situations be a testament to that! (we have already had a few people say it's happened to them in this thread alone). It's no good saying it's "unlikely to happen" which is what kite companies usually say, because the truth is it has happened to a lot of people, and it has killed people...

My own handles (bars) that I have created are usually just a hybrid of a Wakeboarding handle and a Kite handle. Wakeboarding handles don't have a big chunky end to roll lines onto, they are streamlined and end posts usually point in a direction that lends itself least to catching a line on it. I have been working lately on a new Handle and I will post some pictures up when I get the chance.

sir ROWDY said..

kiteboy dave said..

The moral of this thread is manufacturers we need a quick release harness!

Although that may be useful in some situations, what we really need is a real solution to the actual problem. Not another potential point of failure on-top of an already big problem... Streamlined bar ends are what we need.

I partly agree. What happened once to me as well was the bar end (yes Cab) was caught in the spreader hook. No way to release that and unhook yourself.

Btw, the Cab harness had 2 releases for the back rope, one on each side. So even when unhooked with a back leash there was an option to release ether way. But the above happened on that harness so no way:(

sir ROWDY said..
It's no good saying it's "unlikely to happen" which is what kite companies usually say, because the truth is it has happened to a lot of people, and it has killed people...

PS I'm not one of those people to say "unlikely to happen". I'm not experienced enough to know. I'm just running with your thought process as you mentioned you are involved in designing. FWIW

Paul1 said..

Here is an example.

Condolences to the family of the Canadian Kiter.

I'm a relative newbie, and I have never experienced a 'deathloop', so apologies if this is a stupid question, but the video has got me suitably rattled.

I can understand that a tangle could leave one's kite in a deathloop even after the quick release has been fired. But it looks from the video like the kiter could have triggered the release on the leash and all would have been well (all be it, with one less kite in the quiver). Is there a reason why this would not have worked?

Is there a scenario why a modern leash could not be released to prevent this scenario?

sir ROWDY said..
This is true, however you actually don't need to roll your lines around the bar ends anyway! haha.
Next time you go to the beach, figure-8 your lines around the bar only and see what I mean. It's actually superior to winding around the ends for a couple of reasons - 1. You don't need to be very precise, saving you time. 2. Lines never fall off the end and create a birds nest.
Just try it for a few sessions and you will see. It is practically no different to winding on the ends, except people just think that they have to do it that way.

I will give it a go next time. The perception from the manufacturers though suggests they will go with the broader need (perceived or otherwise) of having end-winders. If this could save a life - might be worth those in touch with the decision makers and designers to chat about it. My "two bobs worth".

Kitepower Australia said..
Maybe people are doing things with their kites and bars that the manufacturers had no intention of designing for and none of the manufacturers are brave enough to say that yet??

Am I reading your post wrong? This is from the Cabrinha website, a harness with an attachment on the back...

Paul1 said..

This is where the Cabrinha release is good, as generally no matter what situation you are in, you can always reach your chicken loop to release from the kite completely....

Paul,

This system is no more safe then any other latest systems, it's all got to do with getting to the second release, the Cabrinda second release at the chicken loop would be hard to find if you are being dragged on your stomach, I still believe in the setup Any Yates put me on is best, that is having the safety leash attached at the front of your harness, with a modification to this by adding a extension to this that most do when doing handle pass's, placing the extention between the harness and the release section which allows you to get to it in almost all positions, that is if you are conscious!! :-(

Although in theory I understand having the suicide to the front should be a safer option, however having tried both myself for a fair amount of time I didn't find it any safer and I actually got more injured with it on the front.
If it's on the front you still face a similar dilemma as on the back, reaching the release when sh!t hits the fan is still almost impossible. Not to mention that with it on the front instead of bending the way your back is supposed to bend when being pulled hard, it instead pulls from the front extra hard and reverse tacos your spine (which is what happened to me)... I don't think either way is any better to be honest.

My experience:

If it's over 25knots, then leash at the front (not likely to unhook comfortably anymore).

Yes I found out the hard way that involuntary rag dolled backward kiteloops in 30+ knots are not fun (in my case my old F-One velcro leash release snapped on the 4th loop, 200m down the track- very happy with that result). Can't see how a knife would help here...Think power of a normal kiteloop crash+backwards+face full of water+ 4x in a row with no down time.

Leashing on the back slider rope under 25 knots (obviously for handle passes). I had a Liquid Force harness with side releases for the back rope forever coming undone by itself. On the right track, but needs improvement.

If the line does snag a bar end (assumed hooked in) Do a quick full lock to full lock from one side to the other with the bar to help it unsnag (going to have to fight instict here and grab the bar in the middle, so the releasing line doesn't grab your hand).

Another thing to have in mind with snagging incidents is whether pulling the powerline to you from above the bar would help. It might depower the kite onto the two front lines.
Not always useful, but its worth remembering that option for consideration - if you have time to think.