If you see a kiter being death-dragged,

don't attempt to land the kite.

A spiralling kite moving at speed is quite difficult to catch.

The best option is to tackle the kiter and hold on tight.

I haven't read it all but it seems he was still hooked into the chicken loop.

Gotta wonder if quick release failed?

RIP

tightlines said..

I haven't read it all but it seems he was still hooked into the chicken loop.Gotta wonder if quick release failed?RIP

After a kite has completed a certain number of revolutions (during a deathlooping event) ... ^^^

a front line (centrelines) 'quick' release will be rendered useless,

due to all the twists in the lines.

I'm guessing 4 or 5 revs would be the limit for a release to still be workable.

The Industry should conduct an experiment.

Lambie said..

Just read your response waveslave - i agree but take a hook knife with you to cut the kite loose!!

A hook knife can't cut through a death-leash that's now acting like a tow-rope during a deathlooping event. ^^^

A hook knife might work fine for cutting flying lines ...

but these lines will be out of reach, along with your kite-bar.

What you need is a long blade knife, like a divers knife.

Be careful you don't stab yourself.

Having never seen a death loop I am wondering what happens. Does the kite not hit the water eventually? When I loop my kites repeatedly, each loop would bring it closer and closer to the water. I would fit in perhaps 3 loops before having to pull up lest I crash the kite.

Here is an example.

Man that kite was possessed

Condolences. The first step in attempting rescue is assessing DANGER before a RESPONSE .A much as i think waveslave is a tosser for trolling the windsurfing forums he has a point with the "dont try and catch the kite" I dont understand why he got red.

Must be scary in that situation. This new damn editor keeps pausing and not allowing me write anything else. Must know eppo is on the keyboard. Lol

I've been saying this for a while now, but, no amount of re-designed/improved safety release systems are going to fix this problem... to fix the problem you must fix the cause and 99% of the time the cause of an out of control looping kite is those silly big "end-winders" most brands have as stock now. YES those things that look like a golf club head on the end of bars. Like on Cab bars, they are a joke and they have caused many potentially fatal incidents I have witnessed first-hand. Usually a line or the handle pass leash gets caught up on the angles or bulk of the end winder and is enough to keep the kite looping until it hits something solid.

WAKE UP KITE BRANDS! Get your head out of your ass and address this issue. Winding lines around the ends of the bar isn't important and if you fixed this problem it WOULD save lives!

p.s.
The stupidest part about this is that "end-winders" are an even more useless kite-accessory than the old board-handle (It is very easy to wrap your lines around the middle of the bar only and they never get tangled this way or fall off the end of the bar and create a birds nest).
I have been working on bars with catch-free ends for years now and every time I suggest a brand produce it they say that not enough people would be interested because you can't wind your lines on the end... Maybe if more people knew that what they had on the end of the bar was a potential death-trap they would see the light .

JJB said..

Best advice, practice taking your harness off in a pickle (waist harness). One thing I got out of the instructor course I did and I feel safer knowing I can do it if I need to.

Good luck doing that while getting the wind knocked out of you over and over again, flying through the air backwards... I have seen it happen to the Pros and they are no better than joe-blow at getting out of the situation. Fixing the cause is the only solution.

I don't think you guys really have a clear grasp of such a situation. Most of the time there is no way you can release or even think of releasing, there is certainly no way you can grab a hook knife from some secure pouch and cut a line either, even if the line was close enough to you (which it most certainly isn't). What usually happens is you are being flung backwards, hitting the water very hard with each loop until your kite breaks or you or your kite hits something solid.

Just ask Kung-fu Pete from melbourne about what can happen... He is just one of the people I have seen this happen to (due to stupid bar ends) and he broke his back, nearly drowned and almost died... this is a 100KG+ experienced kiter and all round hard man we are talking about here. If this happens to you all you can do is pray.

Its not likely to come up with a way of preventing or stopping the looping of the kite. There are too many ways it can happen and it could even involve you being dragged by someone else's looping kite. There may be a possibility of the flagging line being enclosed in a sleeve which would allow it to flag freely after many loops, but there would be circumstances where that still leaves the rider in danger.

Then there is the primary release and the release on the kite leash, which are the standard current two stages to being safe. We have seen that they may not work if lines are tangled round part of the harness for example.

If all else fails, if there was a release on the harness which was easy to operate and released the harness, that should solve most of the problems if it is operated quickly enough. You could still have a problem of lines tangled around a limb or being unconscious.

The way harnesses are currently constructed, I would think that the harness would have to split at one side, although the ideal place would be down the centre of the back. In the case of a seat harness the release would have to include releasing one end of each of the leggings.

Have had the "death loop" happen 3 times first time the kite would loop 3-4 times and hit the water then take off again and loop another 3-4 times ,hit the QR and the kite stopped on the water all good,second time kite was doing flat out loops tip wrapped towing me like a water skier just above the water ,never even touching it punched out the QR and kite kept going flat out on the safety so released the safety and bye bye kite,third time kite was bar wrapped again flat out spin punched out the QR and found safety tangled around spreader bar,had a couple of seconds of panic then released the spreader and harness and the whole rig took off ,was glad I'd just bought a new waist harness with a release on the spreader and could get it off easily.

I don't buy into rider experience when it comes to most deathlooping incidents, I think it is a simple case of mechanics that can occur even during perfect conditions. It is mostly a design issue, one that is not addressed by many kite companies. Back in the day they almost never occurred because kites were slow and the mechanical design of kites/bars/lines very simple. The bridles and pulleys concept has for sure advanced the safety of kiteboarding for many riders with it's awesome mechanical depower ability, but to me this is not an excuse to overlook the opposite effect of these designs - increased deathloop incidents. It needs consideration in kite design and this is a feature that is still not being considered by most companies in their design process. I really don't like to ride bridled kites because I have had some close friends nearly killed by them due to tip wrap and bar wrap/halfhitch death loops. It can happen to 5th line c kites too with bar half hitch or leash caught around bar ends when ejected as already mentioned but these kites eliminate dealing with wing tip wraps, pulley jams etc. Only ever seen it once but you can get a 5th line c kite wrapped up with 5th line turning it into a spinning helicopter. But in my experience I will never ride badly designed kite in high winds - stupid bar ends, bridles that could wrap even if kite bends/deforms, kites that deathloop if pulley bridle / jams/fails.

Some education

More frequent deathlooping kites I have noticed: Cabrinha, Fone, Naish I am sure there are more but i have multiple extreme direct examples with each of these, different countries with different distribution of brands will have different info.

You don't want chicken loops that are the perfect size (when unhooked) to get jammed in the spreader bar hook by accident - then you are fully in the ****.

Don't use bars/line without decent leader lines that are long and stiff enough to minimize the chance of leaderlines /kite lines - half hitching on the bar. If that happens when unhooked - you get taken on a deathloop while attached to leash. Fewer companies have safety lines that are attached to one line for potential full depower - which makes this more of an issue.

Make sure your kite in pumped up hard enough to minimize bridle tip wraps - although this is really only useful on kites with short bridles and not really a long term solution.
ery
Avoide bar and line systems with pieces sticking out that can jam/knot lines on them.

New practice. If lauching someones kite check no bridles are wrapped before letting go regardless of if pilot says launch. Example of this recently when someone at my local got launched 30ft onto their head unconscious and off to hospital..

Don't use adjustable bar that leaves a portion of end of bar for lines/leashes to wrap around on small bar width setting. This has led to deathloops after kite deactivated and still attached by leash.

Avoid long bridled kites where (do it with kite on ground/ on land) it is possible to stretch bridle over tip even if having to bend/deforming kite's leadingedge/struts etc...

Flight check your pullies /bridles condition.

Check and rehearse your safety systems activation, if you have new kite. While it is bad to quality control a safety system that may not release and sell it, I still believe in personal responsibility being waaay more important.

Dont' buy harnesses with leash attachments at the back - you cannot get to them when being violently dragged by a deathloop on a leash

There is the option to avoid bridles/pullies completely, but be wary that some (not all) of these kites have little depower and then you are into a whole new can of worms.