News from Heinz P/L:

Baked bean sales spike in an apparent desperate need for wind, plus extreme cases of brown-town blockage being wrongly attempted to purge from the vocal end.

Yeh - dunno if the ignore function would work? It'd be like swiss cheese with every 2nd comment making no sense unless a quotation appears.

Go with the beans.

Even moderators need wind.

NotWal said...

Sure life isn't perfect, but name a place and a time when life would have been better than it is right now.

Polynesia before European contact.
They worked two hours a day and surfed the rest and all the girls were beautiful and eager to please.

Actually that calls for a subjective judgement. What standard would you use? If personal happiness is the criterion how on Earth can you possibly know? That is a non falsifiable assertion and consequently vacuous according to the rules of critical thinking above.

Well yes - if you watch 1960s Hollywood films about Polynesia that is what it was like.

Perfect, with the added bonus of Elvis rocking up and singing a few numbers. I am sure that was the reality of the place.

But, in terms of the critical thinking I would suggest that that while you may apply that theory of personal happiness to an individual it does not hold for the collective.

We all have the capacity to move back toward that previous 'life style' but as a collective we are moving away from it (some say moving forward). Perhaps this movement is only driven by the NWO against the culture of the masses, or perhaps the facets that make us human mean we always stride in one general direction toward a final outcome ?

no we are manipulated and herded like sheep, only worse; sheep know they are being bullied and corralled. all you soft heads believe you're educated and highly evolved, that laws give you rights, that you have a choice and you are free.

Carantoc said...

theDoctor said...
[br

to see religion as the motor which has driven civilisation to where we are now, is only looking at the half of the picture you want to see.

looking objectively, it would appear to me that religion has been more responsible for holding civilisation and spiritual evolution back.

Yeah Doc but -

looking objectively, to see that religion has been more responsible for holding civilisation and spiritual evolution back is only looking at the other half of the picture you want to see.


So, half and half ??

not even quantifiable, religion (christianity, evangelicals are just an embarrassment to common sense) has done nothing but lie to you from its very inception...

theDoctor said...

Carantoc said...

theDoctor said...
[br

to see religion as the motor which has driven civilisation to where we are now, is only looking at the half of the picture you want to see.

looking objectively, it would appear to me that religion has been more responsible for holding civilisation and spiritual evolution back.

Yeah Doc but -

looking objectively, to see that religion has been more responsible for holding civilisation and spiritual evolution back is only looking at the other half of the picture you want to see.


So, half and half ??

not even quantifiable, religion (christianity, evangelicals are just an embarrassment to common sense) has done nothing but lie to you from its very inception...

So - year 610, Arabian peninsula - made up of numerous tribes of nomadic herdsmen with constant warring and, compared to say the Eastern Roman Empire, was uncivilised.

Year 810 - Arabian peninsula - a united nation under Islam, free trade and peace with cities that dwarfed Byzantium in cultural, artisic and technological brilliance.

For sure - year 2009, 2,000 people killed by a bunch of evil dudes who used the name of islam as their excuse (oh hang on - no it was an inside job) - um something else evil about Islam ?? - you come up with one.

And something evil about Buddism while you are at it.

I probably wouldn't argue with somebody that said that the years 400 to 900 were the only real glory years of the great western religions, but to say all religion is 100% evil is an argument I can't understand when tyhere are many great things it has dione and acheived.

petermac33 said...

there certainly is a tendency on this forum to attack the messenger rather than the message.

it's almost becoming them + us.

us[the good guys] attacking the message.[corporate propaganda]

them[the bad guys]attacking the messenger.

You allege that we attack the messenger, yet when we attacked the message (for the last 6 months) you post irrelevant you tube clips.

I'm telling you now and not for the first time that it is unacceptable to respond to a carefully worded paragraph with a 7 minute long youtube clip on a different topic.

It's like winning an argument with someone and then they start barking. You tell them to stop barking and they tell you not to attack the messenger.

I spent more than enough time reading about 911 on the 911 truth site and the popular science site. All of this in response to your arguments, which after reading up, I found entirely inadequate.

The corporate world is pretty evil. There are a lot of bad intentions and terrible lobbyists, causes, and public manipulation. There are hidden agendas and spin and there are even some conspiracies out there.

Peter. If there is an illuminati, they love you. They need someone utterly paranoid and willing to believe anything. You act as a perfect parody of a conspiracy theorist, meaning that no-one can see the wood for the trees.

By not using any critical judgement, you make all of the things you believe equally meaningless.

Well yes - if you watch 1960s Hollywood films about Polynesia that is what it was like.

Perfect, with the added bonus of Elvis rocking up and singing a few numbers. I am sure that was the reality of the place.

But, in terms of the critical thinking I would suggest that that while you may apply that theory of personal happiness to an individual it does not hold for the collective.

We all have the capacity to move back toward that previous 'life style' but as a collective we are moving away from it (some say moving forward). Perhaps this movement is only driven by the NWO against the culture of the masses, or perhaps the facets that make us human mean we always stride in one general direction toward a final outcome ?

I reckon that we are moving forward, technically, at a million miles an hour. Problem is we are regressing socially, maybe not at the same speed, but enough to make me grumpy.

We survived as a species prior to Modern day civilisation against some of the most incredible odds (the ice age). Without much in the way of technical help bar the odd bow and arrow and some cave paint for entertainment. The species would simply have gone extinct had we started off with the modus operandi we are widely subject to today.

There are still remnants of those people around today, such as the kalahari bushmen and amazonian indians and it is widely acknowledged amongst anthropologists that they are intensley spiritual people who live in tune with this orb.

We don't come close, not even remotely. Have a look at the quantity of colour bond fencing in our existence - I take it as an indication of how fractured we are.

japie said...





I reckon that we are moving forward, technically, at a million miles an hour. Problem is we are regressing socially, maybe not at the same speed, but enough to make me grumpy.

We survived as a species prior to Modern day civilisation against some of the most incredible odds (the ice age). Without much in the way of technical help bar the odd bow and arrow and some cave paint for entertainment. The species would simply have gone extinct had we started off with the modus operandi we are widely subject to today.

There are still remnants of those people around today, such as the kalahari bushmen and amazonian indians and it is widely acknowledged amongst anthropologists that they are intensley spiritual people who live in tune with this orb.

We don't come close, not even remotely. Have a look at the quantity of colour bond fencing in our existence - I take it as an indication of how fractured we are.

For sure - look I don't desire to have much of what I may appear to argue for.

I am arguing the reality of the situation.

For example I would suggest more amazonian indians move to the towns and cities than visa versa.

I am not saying this is a good thing and I am not promoting it. A world with a much reduced population and lifestyle more tuned to benevolence than want would be great, but I think human evolution has occured because humans desire the opposite, and it can't be so good in the jungle if more move out than in.

I am not arguing I think it is better out, just that no matter what we think, what we want, what we want to think, the reality of it is more people are moving out than in. That must say something.



But I like the colour bond fencing - that is a great example of what is wrong with the world. But - my arguments are, no matter what you want to think about colourbond - fact is many people put it up

japie said...



Problem is we are regressing socially

And so said Hetrodotus, (the first historian) 2,500 years ago.

And then every historian since

Maybe we are, but it doesn't seem to be a modern phenonomen

japie said


Afraid I am with the Doctor on this one if he is coming from where I think he is.

We are fed a crock of **** by Egyptologists and Darwinians.

I am going to start a new topic on it because, whilst it is a product of critical thinking, it will detract fromt he subject of the thread.

No matter what anyone has said so far, it remains clear to me that the world would be a far better place if every child on earth had the education to be able to put together a speech equalling the one made by the valedictorian.

Seriously, imagine how good that would be, if every child reached their full potential in the field of their choice. If every person alive had had that opportunity for the past eighty years we would not be in the position we are now nor would we even be discussing it. And we have had that potential.

Instead we have created a cess pit where every detrimental apect of our lives increases in direct proportion to our population growth. So while we might well be forging ahead technically it does not seem to be doing much good socially

What we would be doing is having a good giggle at how primitive we were.

Look - I agree with your premise that it would be great if everybody was great.

But why have we been fed a crock of **** by Egyptologists and Darwinians ? because they deliberately did so ? or because as a child, they never reached their full potential in the field of their choice ?

I don't conclude what we have is a cess pit. It may not be better than a theoritcal ideal, but it can never be because the ideal would move with the actual.

The fact that every child gets to learn to read and write is better than 80 years ago. The access to information to question anything a child wants to is better than 20 years ago.

And I can't see that the modern world, and the last 80 years, is the root of all that is currently wrong and it was all going so well before that but then suddenly turned bad.

I see the opposite, it is getting better, it may not be perfect, it probably isn't even good, but it is better now and getting better at a faster rate than ever before.

Every generation has complained that their's is the worst and life used to be better when they were younger. Given that every generation bemoans this, yet continues on the same path makes me think it isn't true.

theDoctor said...


no we are manipulated and herded like sheep, only worse; sheep know they are being bullied and corralled. all you soft heads believe you're educated and highly evolved, that laws give you rights, that you have a choice and you are free.

Doc could you point to where my lack of freedom exists. Can't I change my religion at the drop of a hat, change my profession, Hell, I can even change my sex and after the operation, feeling slightly disapointed with the results choose to blow my brains out. Where is this lack of freedom?

Carantoc said...

japie said


Afraid I am with the Doctor on this one if he is coming from where I think he is.

We are fed a crock of **** by Egyptologists and Darwinians.

I am going to start a new topic on it because, whilst it is a product of critical thinking, it will detract fromt he subject of the thread.

No matter what anyone has said so far, it remains clear to me that the world would be a far better place if every child on earth had the education to be able to put together a speech equalling the one made by the valedictorian.

Seriously, imagine how good that would be, if every child reached their full potential in the field of their choice. If every person alive had had that opportunity for the past eighty years we would not be in the position we are now nor would we even be discussing it. And we have had that potential.

Instead we have created a cess pit where every detrimental apect of our lives increases in direct proportion to our population growth. So while we might well be forging ahead technically it does not seem to be doing much good socially

What we would be doing is having a good giggle at how primitive we were.

Look - I agree with your premise that it would be great if everybody was great.

But why have we been fed a crock of **** by Egyptologists and Darwinians ? because they deliberately did so ? or because as a child, they never reached their full potential in the field of their choice ?

I don't conclude what we have is a cess pit. It may not be better than a theoritcal ideal, but it can never be because the ideal would move with the actual.

The fact that every child gets to learn to read and write is better than 80 years ago. The access to information to question anything a child wants to is better than 20 years ago.

And I can't see that the modern world, and the last 80 years, is the root of all that is currently wrong and it was all going so well before that but then suddenly turned bad.

I see the opposite, it is getting better, it may not be perfect, it probably isn't even good, but it is better now and getting better at a faster rate than ever before.

Every generation has complained that their's is the worst and life used to be better when they were younger. Given that every generation bemoans this, yet continues on the same path makes me think it isn't true.

Sorry, I should be more explicit when I go off at a tangent. I was talking about the world as a whole. I would argue that things were far better here when I arrived in the 1983.

But you have to look at it as a global problem. All of our conflict is generated by economic gain. Have a look at what our big companies are doing and have done overseas to screw up third world countries. You cannot even argue this point. Look at the oil spills, particularly Nigeria and Venezuela where it WAS DELIBERATE! The endless CIA backed assasinations, the bribery.

They actually hung the nigeran activist lawyer and

The most incredible thing is that these incredibly corrupt companies are our biggest providers of oil and we turn a blind eye to the true cost and the abject misery and human suffering that it causes.

Is it any reason why Nigirians have the highest crime rate in Africa when you take into account their activities in South Africa. They have created a drug ghetto out of Muizenberg.

But we do the same here, albeit on a more sophisticated level, but you only have to look at the corruption exposed in government to know that it is only the tip of the ice berg.

And businesses are the same. The waste and built in obsolescence is shockiing and unnecessary.

I am so proud of my kids and owe it to the fact that they went to a public school in a small suburb in Bathurst. Looking back it was the greatest gift Australia has given me, and that is for my kids to have grown up in a very very strong community. I made a wise choice coming here and owe it to my wife to sway me from NZ who play real great rugby!

So yes the opportunities are here but we still marginalise so round and round we go. And if corruption exists at the top it is going to permeate the whole pyramid, always.

My house mate told me tonight that his company big, boss, big, has contract to repair coal trains made in china. They buy our coal, by the way, on the proviso that we buy their trains, which break. Wonder if they will still break when a chinese consortium buys the railway soon

Anyway I want to put up a post about The pyramids and unexplained stuff, but you get my drift

Can't I just keep ignoring your posts

Yeh - spose it's got merit. May even mean I cop less heat from those that hate my posts (before they have even read it).

EDIT:

In before petermacbash/GFabuse/moderator schoolmistresstalk/LOCK.

EDIT 2:

I am a ninny.