student speaks out at indoctrination of school

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petermac33
petermac33
WA
6415 posts
WA, 6415 posts
14 Aug 2010 6:19am
4:15

to think is to process information to form an opinion, but if we are not critical in processing this information are we really thinking or are we mindlessly accepting other people's opinions as truth.



6:08

the majority of students are put through the same brainwashing techniques in order to create a complacent labor force, working in the interests of large corporations and secretive government and worst of all they are completely unaware of it.



8:35

we will not accept anything at face value, we will ask questions and and we will demand answers and truth.


ginger pom
ginger pom
VIC
1746 posts
VIC, 1746 posts
14 Aug 2010 10:00am
critical thinking does not equal believing in chemtrails, 911 being an inside job, the Rothschilds running the illuminati or a NWO, WONWO.

She would still tear your stupid ideas apart.

Please don't equate the isolation that you experience as a result of ignoring evidence and believing crack pot theories, with the experience of those carrying out brave intellectual actions and genuinely challenging the status quo.
petermac33
petermac33
WA
6415 posts
WA, 6415 posts
14 Aug 2010 8:23am
''and worst of all they are completely unaware of it.''



inspiring speech all the same.


critical thinking involves researching the evidence before believing what is fact,as for her tearing my stupid ideas apart, you are not aware of her opinion on ''my stupid ideas.''
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
14 Aug 2010 2:55pm
The speech was brilliant. The bloke sitting behind her (a teacher??) looked decidedly uncomfortable about it.

She might have dashed her chances of becoming an employee (servant or wage slave) but certainly highlighted her employability as an agent for change.

Thanks for that one petermac33. It inspires hope for the future.

Geez, you seem to have upset the pom. You can hardly say anything without him attacking it or you.

That is one thing that happens on the forum that has become quite exasperating. There is a tendency to attack the messenger rather than the message. Cheers Cisco.
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
14 Aug 2010 3:19pm
The red thumb was from me Ginger. Your attack seems gratuitous.
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
14 Aug 2010 4:02pm
@ginger: 911 may not have been an inside job, but 2 planes did not bring 3 buildings down, 2 of them or even 1 building.
theDoctor
theDoctor
NSW
5786 posts
NSW, 5786 posts
14 Aug 2010 5:04pm
ginger pom said...



Please don't equate the isolation that you experience as a result of ignoring evidence and believing crack pot theories, with the experience of those carrying out brave intellectual actions and genuinely challenging the status quo.


whoa, talk about the pot calling the kettle black
petermac33
petermac33
WA
6415 posts
WA, 6415 posts
14 Aug 2010 3:47pm
found this from www.informationliberation.com/
log man
log man
VIC
8289 posts
VIC, 8289 posts
14 Aug 2010 5:49pm
Petermac33, she doesn't need to know about 9/11 being an inside job or fluoride being "a poison" or chemtrails or all the other conspiracist crap, and by the way what ever happened to UFO's Ghosts and talking to the spirits, is that just a bit out of fashion or something. There's proper science going everywhere, real science, fascinating, ground breaking science, backed up by years of work by others, peer reviewed and constantly tested not I read it on some nutjob internet site and it fits MY view of the world so therefore that's "evidence". And Cisco please , playing the innocent victim, and claiming gingerpoms response was shooting the messenger , rubbish, if you bring up a nonsense idea and it gets shot down in flames then maybe the the idea is nonsense. However I failed to add that I work for an international pharmaceutical company that has close dealings with the CIA and I was in new york on or about 9/11
maxm
maxm
NSW
864 posts
NSW, 864 posts
14 Aug 2010 9:41pm
Hey petermac, aware or unaware doesn't matter to me. If "they" are poisoning my water, if "they" are putting chemicals in the air I breathe, if "they" are putting bar codes on the toilet paper I wipe my ar$se with, I say -

I don't care. In fact, I WANT MORE.

Why? Easy. Because I've already lived more years than my father managed before he kicked it. And my current outlook is that I can look forward to many more years of healthy life. I'm much wealthier than my parents were. I don't have to work as hard or as long. I have a nice home, cars and boats and other playthings that my parents never could never have dreamed of. All of us, me, wife, kids have had the benefits of full secondary and tertiary education where my parents did well to finish primary and some basic secondary.

And my parents did much better than their parents. Lived longer, had an easier life, all the rest of it.

So whatever the NWO or whoever it is is doing, I reckon they're doing a damn fine job of it. More power to them, I say!
japie
japie
NSW
7146 posts
NSW, 7146 posts
15 Aug 2010 12:31am
maxm said...

Hey petermac, aware or unaware doesn't matter to me. If "they" are poisoning my water, if "they" are putting chemicals in the air I breathe, if "they" are putting bar codes on the toilet paper I wipe my ar$se with, I say -

I don't care. In fact, I WANT MORE.

Why? Easy. Because I've already lived more years than my father managed before he kicked it. And my current outlook is that I can look forward to many more years of healthy life. I'm much wealthier than my parents were. I don't have to work as hard or as long. I have a nice home, cars and boats and other playthings that my parents never could never have dreamed of. All of us, me, wife, kids have had the benefits of full secondary and tertiary education where my parents did well to finish primary and some basic secondary.

And my parents did much better than their parents. Lived longer, had an easier life, all the rest of it.

So whatever the NWO or whoever it is is doing, I reckon they're doing a damn fine job of it. More power to them, I say!



Should that be something that you want to publicise?? There are a lot of I's in there and no mention of the thems?

Hope some of the toilet paper clogs up the water intake on one of your engines
ginger pom
ginger pom
VIC
1746 posts
VIC, 1746 posts
15 Aug 2010 10:36am
maxm
maxm
NSW
864 posts
NSW, 864 posts
15 Aug 2010 12:05pm
japie said...

Should that be something that you want to publicise?? There are a lot of I's in there and no mention of the thems?


Sure, why not? Dunno why the NWO would want to be clandestine. They should come out in public so we can thank them.

And of course there's lots of "I"s in there japie. You didn't imagine I'd give a rats about you lot did you??
deXtrous
deXtrous
NSW
451 posts
NSW, 451 posts
15 Aug 2010 12:46pm
The NWO will be revealed when they feel the public are frightened enough to accept it.


p.s. GingerPom, that video sucked. I really can't tell if that was a joke or not, although it would explain your close-minded opinions in other threads. No Christian or theist is on the right path to spirituality, they still consume every day and continue being trapped in their material desires. You can't simply ask 'God' for help, you just have to go out and do it yourself. Anyone who doesn't is just an egotistical screw up. If you think you can gain immortality or even a higher consciousness simply by saying a prayer to a non-existant 'conscious god', then you're just as stupid as the ones who believe we're all here by accident.

The biggest fallacy of Christianity is the fact they they so adamantly believe their religion is right and all others are simply wrong and should not be studied.


"Being spiritual has nothing to do with what you believe and everything to do with your state of consciousness."

-Eckhart Tolle
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
15 Aug 2010 12:47pm
@ginger: seriously that video works on school kids... but anybody with just a teeny weeny bit of physics/chemistry knows that 287.5c isn't enough to "melt" or even weaken heat protected 40" steel girders.

I'll try and make it easier for you.

287c open air burning temp for A1 jetfuel
1510c melting steel
if you wanted to melt steel how much more heat would you need?

Doesn't matter where you look the official story doesn't add up... how did u ever get past immigration?
Do u have a learning impediment?


WTF! I was just about to get ready for a kite, and it's RAINING!!!
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
15 Aug 2010 12:50pm
deXtrous said...

The NWO will be revealed when they feel the public are frightened enough to accept it.

Why would you reveal yourself to a populace too simple to do even basic maths?

OMG I'm getting sucked in again .

Wind just died and it's gone grey and raining
deXtrous
deXtrous
NSW
451 posts
NSW, 451 posts
15 Aug 2010 1:02pm
Since when was math the show pony of intelligence?
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
15 Aug 2010 1:25pm
deXtrous said...

Since when was math the show pony of intelligence?

It's what we use to look for intelligence.
Maths is the language of logic. It is the study of space, quantity, structure, ... everything we know is derived from Maths.


OMG, it's now thundering, REALLY blowing and heavy rain... so much for my kiting session


They just updated the forecast:

A shower or two and local thunderstorms with small hail. Partly
cloudy. Moderate to fresh and gusty west to northwest winds.
Precis: Shower or two. Local thunder.
log man
log man
VIC
8289 posts
VIC, 8289 posts
15 Aug 2010 1:39pm
this here is a classic case of "I know better than you even though I am a tool and your a lot brighter than me but my opinion is better than yours cause I think I'm greatism"
ginger pom
ginger pom
VIC
1746 posts
VIC, 1746 posts
15 Aug 2010 3:39pm
deXtrous said...

I really can't tell if that was a joke or not, although it would explain your close-minded opinions in other threads.


It was a joke...
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
15 Aug 2010 3:55pm
ginger pom said...




That's pretty funny. Not a s**** is it? I really cant tell.

edit: thats s.p.o.o.f
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
15 Aug 2010 4:04pm
FlySurfer said...

@ginger: seriously that video works on school kids... but anybody with just a teeny weeny bit of physics/chemistry knows that 287.5c isn't enough to "melt" or even weaken heat protected 40" steel girders.

I'll try and make it easier for you.

287c open air burning temp for A1 jetfuel
1510c melting steel
if you wanted to melt steel how much more heat would you need?

Doesn't matter where you look the official story doesn't add up... how did u ever get past immigration?
Do u have a learning impediment?


WTF! I was just about to get ready for a kite, and it's RAINING!!!



Thats's piss weak thinking f'er. Its all been pointed out to here before or weren't you watching? You seem to belong to the "9/11 was a conspiracy" religion.

I dont know why I saved this link. I must be psychic.
911research.wtc7.net/index.html
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23652 posts
WA, 23652 posts
15 Aug 2010 2:09pm
Petermac

This started with a discussion re: critical thinking and you purport that critical thinking supports your theories. Read this, apply it honestly to all the things you have posted on here, and tell us if it still does.
(Substitute paranormal for conspiracy theories)

(Warning - long)
A Field Guide to Critical Thinking
by James Lett
There are many reasons for the popularity of paranormal beliefs in the United States today, including:
• the irresponsibility of the mass media, who exploit the public taste for nonsense,
• the irrationality of the American world-view, which supports such unsupportable claims as life after death and the efficacy of the polygraph, and
the ineffectiveness of public education, which generally fails to teach students the essential skills of critical thinking.
As a college professor, I am especially concerned with this third problem. Most of the freshman and sophomore students in my classes simply do not know how to draw reasonable conclusions from the evidence. At most, they've been taught in high school what to think; few of them know how to think.
In an attempt to remedy this problem at my college, I've developed an elective course called "Anthropology and the Paranormal." The course examines the complete range of paranormal beliefs in contemporary American culture, from precognition and psychokinesis to channeling and cryptozoology and everything between and beyond, including astrology, UFOs, and creationism. I teach the students very little about anthropological theories and even less about anthropological terminology. Instead, I try to communicate the essence of the anthropological perspective, by teaching them, indirectly, what the scientific method is all about. I do so by teaching them how to evaluate evidence. I give them six simple rules to follow when considering any claim, and then show them how to apply those six rules to the examination of any paranormal claim.
The six rules of evidential reasoning are my own distillation and simplification of the scientific method. To make it easier for students to remember these half-dozen guidelines, I've coined an acronym for them: Ignoring the vowels, the letters in the word "FiLCHeRS" stand for the rules of Falsifiability, Logic, Comprehensiveness, Honesty, Replicability, and Sufficiency. Apply these six rules to the evidence offered for any claim, I tell my students, and no one will ever be able to sneak up on you and steal your belief. You'll be filch-proof.

Falsifiability

It must be possible to conceive of evidence that would prove the claim false. It may sound paradoxical, but in order for any claim to be true, it must be falsifiable. The rule of falsifiability is a guarantee that if the claim is false, the evidence will prove it false; and if the claim is true, the evidence will not disprove it (in which case the claim can be tentatively accepted as true until such time as evidence is brought forth that does disprove it). The rule of falsifiability, in short, says that the evidence must matter, and as such it is the first and most important and most fundamental rule of evidential reasoning.
The rule of falsifiability is essential for this reason: If nothing conceivable could ever disprove the claim, then the evidence that does exist would not matter; it would be pointless to even examine the evidence, because the conclusion is already known -- the claim is invulnerable to any possible evidence. This would not mean, however, that the claim is true; instead it would mean that the claim is meaningless. This is so because it is impossible -- logically impossible -- for any claim to be true no matter what. For every true claim, you can always conceive of evidence that would make the claim untrue -- in other words, again, every true claim is falsifiable.
For example, the true claim that the life span of human beings is less than 200 years is falsifiable; it would be falsified if a single human being were to live to be 200 years old. Similarly, the true claim that water freezes at 32° F is falsifiable; it would be falsified if water were to freeze at, say, 34° F. Each of these claims is firmly established as scientific "fact," and we do not expect either claim ever to be falsified; however, the point is that either could be. Any claim that could not be falsified would be devoid of any propositional content; that is, it would not be making a factual assertion -- it would instead be making an emotive statement, a declaration of the way the claimant feels about the world. Nonfalsifiable claims do communicate information, but what they describe is the claimant's value orientation. They communicate nothing whatsoever of a factual nature, and hence are neither true nor false. Nonfalsifiable statements are propositionally vacuous.
There are two principal ways in which the rule of falsifiability can be violated -- two ways, in other words, of making nonfalsifiable claims. The first variety of nonfalsifiable statements is the undeclared claim: a statement that is so broad or vague that it lacks any propositional content. The undeclared claim is basically unintelligible and consequently meaningless. Consider, for example, the claim that crystal therapists can use pieces of quartz to restore balance and harmony to a person's spiritual energy. What does it mean to have unbalanced spiritual energy? How is the condition recognized and diagnosed? What evidence would prove that someone's unbalanced spiritual energy had been -- or had not been -- balanced by the application of crystal therapy? Most New Age wonders, in fact, consist of similarly undeclared claims that dissolve completely when exposed to the solvent of rationality.
The undeclared claim has the advantage that virtually any evidence that could be adduced could be interpreted as congruent with the claim, and for that reason it is especially popular among paranormalists who claim precognitive powers. Jeane Dixon, for example, predicted that 1987 would be a year "filled with changes" for Caroline Kennedy. Dixon also predicted that Jack Kemp would "face major disagreements with the rest of his party" in 1987 and that "world-wide drug terror" would be "unleashed by narcotics czars" in the same year. She further revealed that Dan Rather "may [or may not] be hospitalized" in 1988, and that Whitney Houston's "greatest problem" in 1986 would be "balancing her personal life against her career." The undeclared claim boils down to a statement that can be translated as "Whatever will be, will be."
The second variety of nonfalsifiable statements, which is even more popular among paranormalists, involves the use of the multiple out, that is, an inexhaustible series of excuses intended to explain away the evidence that would seem to falsify the claim. Creationists, for example, claim that the universe is no more than 10,000 years old. They do so despite the fact that we can observe stars that are billions of light-years from the earth, which means that the light must have left those stars billions of years ago, and which proves that the universe must be billions of years old. How then do the creationists respond to this falsification of their claim? By suggesting that God must have created the light already on the way from those distant star at the moment of creation 10,000 years ago. No conceivable piece of evidence, of course, could disprove that claim.
Additional examples of multiple outs abound in the realm of the paranormal. UFO proponents, faced with a lack of reliable physical or photographic evidence to buttress the claims, point to a secret "government conspiracy" that is allegedly preventing the release of evidence that would support their case. Psychic healers say they can heal you if you have enough faith in their psychic powers. Psychokinetics say they can bend spoons with their minds if they are not exposed to negative vibrations from skeptic observers. Tarot readers can predict your fate if you're sincere in your desire for knowledge. The multiple out means, in effect, "Heads I win, tails you lose."

Logic

Any argument offered as evidence in support of any claim must be sound. An argument is said to be "valid" if its conclusion follows unavoidably from its premises; it is "sound" if it is valid and if all the premises are true. The rule of logic thus governs the validity of inference. Although philosophers have codified and named the various forms of valid arguments, it is not necessary to master a course in form logic in order to apply the rules of inference consistently and correctly. An invalid argument can be recognize by the simple method of counterexample: If you can conceive of a single imaginable instance whereby the conclusion would not necessarily follow from the premises even if the premises were true, then the argument is invalid. Consider the following syllogism for example: All dogs have fleas; Xavier has fleas; therefore Xavier is a dog. That argument is invalid because a single flea-ridden feline named Xavier would provide an effective counterexample. If an argument is invalid, then it is, by definition, unsound. Not all valid arguments are sound, however. Consider this example: All dogs have fleas; Xavier is a dog; therefore Xavier has fleas. That argument is unsound, even though it is valid, because the first premise is false: All dogs do not have fleas.
To determine whether a valid argument is sound is frequently problematic; knowing whether a given premise is true or false often demands additional knowledge about the claim that may require empirical investigation. If the argument passes these two tests, however -- if it is both valid and sound -- then the conclusion can be embraced with certainty.
The rule of logic is frequently violated by pseudoscientists. Erich von Däniken, who singlehandedly popularized the ancient-astronaut mythology in the 1970s, wrote many books in which he offered invalid and unsound arguments with benumbing regularity (see Omohundro 1976). In Chariots of the Gods? he was not above making arguments that were both logically invalid and factually inaccurate -- in other words, arguments that were doubly unsound. For example, von Däniken argues that the map of the world made by the sixteenth-century Turkish admiral Piri Re'is is so "astoundingly accurate" that it could only have been made from satellite photographs. Not only is the argument invalid (any number of imaginable techniques other than satellite photography could result in an "astoundingly accurate" map), but the premise is simply wrong -- the Piri Re'is map, in fact, contains many gross inaccuracies (see Story 1981).

Comprehensiveness

The evidence offered in support of any claim must be exhaustive -- that is all of the available evidence must be considered.
For obvious reasons, it is never reasonable to consider only the evidence that supports a theory and to discard the evidence that contradicts it. This rule is straightforward and self-apparent, and it requires little explication or justification. Nevertheless, it is a rule that is frequently broken by proponents of paranormal claims and by those who adhere to paranormal beliefs.
For example, the proponents of biorhythm theory are fond of pointing to airplane crashes that occurred on days when the pilot, copilot, anchor navigator were experiencing critically low points in their intellectual, emotional, and/or physical cycles. The evidence considered by the biorhythm apologists, however, does not include the even larger number of airplane crashes that occurred when the crews were experiencing high or neutral points in their biorhythm cycles (Hines 1988:160). Similarly, when people believe that Jeane Dixon has precognitive ability because she predicted the 1988 election of George Bush (which she did, two months before the election, when every social scientist, media maven, and private citizen in the country was making the same prognostication), they typically ignore the thousands of forecasts that Dixon has made that have failed to come true (such as her predictions that John F. Kennedy would not win the presidency in 1960, that World War III would begin in 1958, and that Fidel Castro would die in 1969). If you are willing to be selective in the evidence you consider, you could reasonably conclude that the earth is flat.

Honesty

The evidence offered in support of any claim must be evaluated without self-deception.
The rule of honesty is a corollary to the rule of comprehensiveness. When you have examined all of the evidence, it is essential that you be honest with yourself about the results of that examination. If the weight of the evidence contradicts the claim, then you are required to abandon belief in that claim. The obverse, of course, would hold as well.
The rule of honesty, like the rule of comprehensiveness, is frequently violated by both proponents and adherents of paranormal beliefs. Parapsychologists violate this rule when they conclude, after numerous subsequent experiments have failed to replicate initially positive psi results, that psi must be an elusive phenomenon. (Applying Occam's Razor, the more honest conclusion would be that the original positive result must have been a coincidence.) Believers in the paranormal violate this rule when they conclude, after observing a "psychic" surreptitiously bend a spoon with his hands, that he only cheats sometimes.
In practice, the rule of honesty usually boils down to an injunction against breaking the rule of falsifiability by taking a multiple out. There is more to it than that, however: The rule of honesty means that you must accept the obligation to come to a rational conclusion once you have examined all the evidence. If the overwhelming weight of all the evidence falsifies your belief, then you must conclude that the belief is false, and you must face the implications of that conclusion forthrightly. In the face of overwhelmingly negative evidence, neutrality and agnosticism are no better than credulity and faith. Denial, avoidance, rationalization, and all the other familiar mechanisms of self-deception would constitute violations of the rule of honesty.
In my view, this rule alone would all but invalidate the entire discipline of parapsychology. After more than a century of systematic, scholarly research, the psi hypothesis remains wholly unsubstantiated and unsupportable; parapsychologists have failed, as Ray Hyman (1985:7) observes, to produce "any consistent evidence for paranormality that can withstand acceptable scientific scrutiny." From all indications, the number of parapsychologists who observe the rule of honesty pales in comparison with the number who delude themselves. Veteran psychic investigator Eric Dingwall (1985:162) summed up his extensive experience in parapsychological research with this observation: "After sixty years' experience and personal acquaintance with most of the leading parapsychologists of that period I do not think I could name a half dozen whom I could call objective students who honestly wished to discover the truth."

Replicability

If the evidence for any claim is based upon an experimental result, or if the evidence offered in support of any claim could logically be explained as coincidental, then it is necessary for the evidence to be repeated in subsequent experiments or trials.
The rule of replicability provides a safeguard against the possibility of error, fraud, or coincidence. A single experimental result is never adequate in and of itself, whether the experiment concerns the production of nuclear fusion or the existence of telepathic ability. Any experiment, no matter how carefully designed and executed, is always subject to the possibility of implicit bias or undetected error. The rule of replicability, which requires independent observers to follow the same procedures and to achieve the same results, is an effective way of correcting bias or error, even if the bias or error remains permanently unrecognized. If the experimental results are the product of deliberate fraud, the rule of replicability will ensure that the experiment will eventually be performed by honest researchers.
If the phenomenon in question could conceivably be the product of coincidence, then the phenomenon must be replicated before the hypothesis of coincidence can be rejected. If coincidence is in fact the explanation for the phenomenon, then the phenomenon will not be duplicated in subsequent trials, and the hypothesis of coincidence will be confirmed; but if coincidence is not the explanation, then the phenomenon may be duplicated, and an explanation other than coincidence will have to be sought. If I correctly predict the next roll of the dice, you should demand that I duplicate the feat before granting that my prediction was anything but a coincidence.
The rule of replicability is regularly violated by parapsychologists, who are especially fond of misinterpreting coincidences. The famous "psychic sleuth" Gerard Croiset, for example, allegedly solved numerous baffling crimes and located hundreds of missing persons in a career that spanned five decades, from the 1940s until his death in 1980. The truth is that the overwhelming majority of Croiset's predictions were either vague and nonfalsifiable or simply wrong. Given the fact that Croiset made thousands of predictions during his lifetime, it is hardly surprising that he enjoyed one or two chance "hits." The late Dutch parapsychologist Wilhelm Tenhaeff, however, seized upon those "very few prize cases" to argue that Croiset possessed demonstrated psi powers (Hoebens 1986a:130). That was a clear violation of the rule of replicability, and could not have been taken as evidence of Croiset's psi abilities even if the "few prize cases" had been true. (In fact, however, much of Tenhaeff's data was fraudulent -- see Hoebens 1986b. )

Sufficiency

The evidence offered in support of any claim must be adequate to establish the truth of that claim, with these stipulations:
• the burden of proof for any claim rests on the claimant,
• extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, and
• evidence based upon authority and/or testimony is always inadequate for any paranormal claim
The burden of proof always rests with the claimant for the simple reason that the absence of disconfirming evidence is not the same as the presence of confirming evidence. This rule is frequently violated by proponents of paranormal claims, who argue that, because their claims have not been disproved, they have therefore been proved. (UFO buffs, for example, argue that because skeptics have not explained every UFO sighting, some UFO sightings must be extraterrestrial spacecraft.) Consider the implications of that kind of reasoning: If I claim that Adolf Hitler is alive and well and living in Argentina, how could you disprove my claim? Since the claim is logically possible, the best you could do (in the absence of unambiguous forensic evidence) is to show that the claim is highly improbable -- but that would not disprove it. The fact that you cannot prove that Hitler is not living in Argentina, however, does not mean that I have proved that he is. It only means that I have proved that he could be -- but that would mean very little; logical possibility is not the same as established reality. If the absence of disconfirming evidence were sufficient proof of a claim, then we could "prove" anything that we could imagine. Belief must be based not simply on the absence of disconfirming evidence but on the presence of confirming evidence. It is the claimant's obligation to furnish that confirming evidence.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence for the obvious reason of balance. If I claim that it rained for ten minutes on my way to work last Tuesday, you would be justified in accepting that claim as true on the basis of my report. But if I claim that I was abducted by extraterrestrial aliens who whisked me to the far side of the moon and performed bizarre medical experiments on me, you would be justified in demanding more substantial evidence. The ordinary evidence of my testimony, while sufficient for ordinary claims, is not sufficient for extraordinary ones.
In fact, testimony is always inadequate for any paranormal claim, whether it is offered by an authority or a layperson, for the simple reason that a human being can lie or make a mistake. No amount of expertise in any field is a guarantee against human fallibility, and expertise does not preclude the motivation to lie; therefore a person's credentials, knowledge and experience cannot, in themselves be taken as sufficient evidence to establish the truth of a claim. Moreover, a person's sincerity lends nothing to the credibility of his or her testimony. Even if people are telling what they sincerely believe to be the truth, it is always possible that they could be mistaken. Perception is a selective act, dependent upon belief context, expectation, emotional and biochemical states, and a host of other variables. Memory is notoriously problematic, prone to a range of distortions, deletions, substitutions and amplifications. Therefore the testimony that people offer of what they remember seeing or hearing should always be regarded as only provisionally and approximately accurate; when people are speaking about the paranormal, their testimony should never be regarded as reliable evidence in and of itself. The possibility and even the likelihood of error are far too extensive (see Connor 1986).

Conclusion

The first three rules of FiLCHeRS -- falsifiability, logic, and comprehensiveness -- are all logically necessary rules of evidential reasoning. If we are to have confidence in the veracity of any claim whether normal or paranormal, the claim must be prepositionally meaningful, and the evidence offered in support of the claim must be rational and exhaustive.
The last three rules of FiLCHeRS -- honesty, replicability, and sufficiency -- are all pragmatically necessary rules of evidential reasoning. Because human beings are often motivated to rationalize and to lie to themselves, because they are sometimes motivated to lie to others, because they can make mistakes, and because perception and memory are problematic, we must demand that the evidence for any factual claim be evaluated without self-deception, that it be carefully screened for error, fraud, and appropriateness, and that it be substantial and unequivocal.
What I tell my students, then, is that you can and should use FiLCHeRS to evaluate the evidence offered for any claim. If the claim fails any one of these six tests, then it should be rejected; but if it passes all six tests, then you are justified in placing considerable confidence in it.
Passing all six tests, of course, does not guarantee that the claim is true (just because you have examined all the evidence available today is no guarantee that there will not be new and disconfirming evidence available tomorrow), but it does guarantee that you have good reasons for believing the claim. It guarantees that you have sold your belief for a fair price, and that it has not been filched from you.
Being a responsible adult means accepting the fact that almost all knowledge is tentative, and accepting it cheerfully. You may be required to change your belief tomorrow, if the evidence warrants, and you should be willing and able to do so. That, in essence, is what skepticism means: to believe if and only if the evidence warrants.

References
Connor, John W. 1984. Misperception, folk belief, and the occult: A cognitive guide to understanding. SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, 8:344-354, Summer.
Dingwall, E. J. 1985. The need for responsibility in parapsychology: My sixty years in psychical research. In A Skeptic's Handbook of Parapsychology, 161-174, ed. by Paul Kurtz. Buffalo, N Y. Prometheus Books.
Hines, Terence. 1988. Pseudoscience and the Paranormal Buffalo, N.Y Prometheus Books.
Hoebens, Piet Hein. 1981. Gerard Croiset: Investigation of the Mozart of "psychic sleuths." SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, 6(1):1728, Fall.
-- -- -- . 1981-82. Croiset and Professor Tenhaeff Discrepancies in claims of clairvoyance. SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, (2):21-40, Winter.
Hyman, Ray. 1985. A critical historical overview of parapsychology. In A Skeptic's Handbook of Parapsychology, 3-96, ed. by Paul Kurtz Buffalo, N.Y. Prometheus Books.
Omohundro, John T. 1976. Von Däniken's chariots primer in the art of cooked science. SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, 1(1):58-68, Fall.
Story, Ronald D. 1977 Von Däniken's golden gods, SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, 2(1):22-35, Fall/Winter.
About the Author
James Lett is a Professor of Anthropology, Department of Social Sciences, Indian River Community College, 3209 Virginia Avenue, Ft. Pierce, FL 34981. He is author of The Human Enterprise: A Critical Introduction to Anthropologcal Theory and Science, Reason, and Anthropology: The Principles of Rational Inquiry (1997, Rowman and Littlefield Publishers).

petermac33
petermac33
WA
6415 posts
WA, 6415 posts
15 Aug 2010 2:12pm
Dr. Hilary Knatz, the author of Getting On, states that “Denial, is a way of coping

with unpleasant realities” (Knatz, 1999). She then goes on to explain that: Denial,

in the psychological/psychiatric vernacular, is a defensive strategy to minimize

anxiety. It is defined and conceptualized in a number of ways, which differ

according to theory. In classical Freudian terms, denial is a defense mechanism

invoked by a person when there is a danger that he or she will become aware of or

act on unconscious primitive impulses that are unacceptable. We defend against

such impulses, it is said, by unconsciously limiting our awareness of them, or

perhaps attributing them to others.

2). The Oxford English Dictionary defines denial to be “the asserting (of anything)

to be untrue or invalid; also, the denying of the existence or reality of a thing”

Sometimes denial can be constructive and adaptive,

For example, there have been studies of people with terminal illness that have

suggested that denying the seriousness of the condition may help postpone death.

It is true that overwhelming anxiety can hamper coping, and that screening out

anxiety-provoking stimuli can help prevent this kind of paralysis. In general, it must

be observed, the world is full of terrifying possibilities that we could never

completely comprehend (1998). Denial is the refusal to believe or accept the

reality that certain events have happened, are happening, or will happen. To

accept the reality would bring emotional pain, so the events are denied. Related to

denial is the defense called minimizing. Events are accepted, but only in a watered

down version. “Sure I drink once in a while. Everybody does. It's no big deal. Once

in a while I might get carried away, but it really isn't a problem”.

maxm
maxm
NSW
864 posts
NSW, 864 posts
15 Aug 2010 4:14pm
FlySurfer said...

deXtrous said...

Since when was math the show pony of intelligence?

It's what we use to look for intelligence.
Maths is the language of logic. It is the study of space, quantity, structure, ... everything we know is derived from Maths.


OMG, it's now thundering, REALLY blowing and heavy rain... so much for my kiting session


They just updated the forecast:

A shower or two and local thunderstorms with small hail. Partly
cloudy. Moderate to fresh and gusty west to northwest winds.
Precis: Shower or two. Local thunder.


Not so. Ability at maths is just one of a whole range of capabilities which could be classified as "intelligence". Another would be the ability to stick your head out the window and read the weather.

In other words... FAIL, FS
maxm
maxm
NSW
864 posts
NSW, 864 posts
15 Aug 2010 4:16pm
petermac33 said...

Dr. Hilary Knatz, the author of Getting On, states that “Denial, is a way of coping

with unpleasant realities” (Knatz, 1999). She then goes on to explain that: Denial,

in the psychological/psychiatric vernacular, is a defensive strategy to minimize

anxiety. It is defined and conceptualized in a number of ways, which differ

according to theory. In classical Freudian terms, denial is a defense mechanism

invoked by a person when there is a danger that he or she will become aware of or

act on unconscious primitive impulses that are unacceptable. We defend against

such impulses, it is said, by unconsciously limiting our awareness of them, or

perhaps attributing them to others.

2). The Oxford English Dictionary defines denial to be “the asserting (of anything)

to be untrue or invalid; also, the denying of the existence or reality of a thing”

Sometimes denial can be constructive and adaptive,

For example, there have been studies of people with terminal illness that have

suggested that denying the seriousness of the condition may help postpone death.

It is true that overwhelming anxiety can hamper coping, and that screening out

anxiety-provoking stimuli can help prevent this kind of paralysis. In general, it must

be observed, the world is full of terrifying possibilities that we could never

completely comprehend (1998). Denial is the refusal to believe or accept the

reality that certain events have happened, are happening, or will happen. To

accept the reality would bring emotional pain, so the events are denied. Related to

denial is the defense called minimizing. Events are accepted, but only in a watered

down version. “Sure I drink once in a while. Everybody does. It's no big deal. Once

in a while I might get carried away, but it really isn't a problem”.




Apt quote. You should have a look at your own life of denial Peter.
petermac33
petermac33
WA
6415 posts
WA, 6415 posts
15 Aug 2010 2:27pm


to accept the reality would bring emotional pain, so the events are denied.



at last, finally found the answer as to why otherwise intelligent people believe in the boogie man theory.

poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
15 Aug 2010 3:22pm
petermac33 said...



to accept the reality would bring emotional pain, so the events are denied.




at last, finally found the answer as to why otherwise intelligent people believe in chemtrails, NWO, 911 insider job, poison in the water, today tonight etc etc etc
ginger pom
ginger pom
VIC
1746 posts
VIC, 1746 posts
15 Aug 2010 6:35pm
petermac33 said...

Dr. Hilary Knatz, the author of Getting On, states that “Denial, is a way of coping




interesting that you posted this after a long and informative post that you haven't read...

Carantoc
Carantoc
WA
7269 posts
WA, 7269 posts
15 Aug 2010 5:22pm
maxm said...

Hey petermac, aware or unaware doesn't matter to me. If "they" are poisoning my water, if "they" are putting chemicals in the air I breathe, if "they" are putting bar codes on the toilet paper I wipe my ar$se with, I say -

I don't care. In fact, I WANT MORE.

Why? Easy. Because I've already lived more years than my father managed before he kicked it. And my current outlook is that I can look forward to many more years of healthy life. I'm much wealthier than my parents were. I don't have to work as hard or as long. I have a nice home, cars and boats and other playthings that my parents never could never have dreamed of. All of us, me, wife, kids have had the benefits of full secondary and tertiary education where my parents did well to finish primary and some basic secondary.

And my parents did much better than their parents. Lived longer, had an easier life, all the rest of it.

So whatever the NWO or whoever it is is doing, I reckon they're doing a damn fine job of it. More power to them, I say!



Think you forgot a few things there.

Presumably if the masses weren't 'subdued' they would be anarchistic.

If religion hadn't have existed then civilisation as we know it wouldn't have been carried forward to each generation.

Like you, I like my ordered life with a mass moral concensus of what is right and wrong.

Presumably if there was nothing in 'power' and no centrally controlled education, social services, or other things I equate to civilisation and we all lived in an anarcy state where nobody pays taxes, every service you want you perform directly for yourself, nobody provides clean water let along puts chlorine and flouride in it, the airplane hasdn't been built because it takes governments developing military technology to advance the science, the peoples of Pakistan receive no aid from US military helicopters, then Petermac would be happy.


Maybe wake up and smell the roses rather than compalining about the thorns on them.

Sure life isn't perfect, but name a place and a time when life would have been better than it is right now.
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
15 Aug 2010 9:01pm
Sure life isn't perfect, but name a place and a time when life would have been better than it is right now.


Polynesia before European contact.
They worked two hours a day and surfed the rest and all the girls were beautiful and eager to please.

Actually that calls for a subjective judgement. What standard would you use? If personal happiness is the criterion how on Earth can you possibly know? That is a non falsifiable assertion and consequently vacuous according to the rules of critical thinking above.
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