Cassa said...

As for the comments that we are all entiteled to 10 days off per year, If you think thats OK , well I guess with that kind of attitude of spread throughout the workforce we , as a country that is supposed to be going forward, would soon be going the other way!

This post comes across as un-australian to me. May be you should considered moving your two-bit business off shore?

Cassa said...

days in-lue
Ohh no takin aussie,
because I'm entiteled to it ,
I find it dissapointing
The possability to earn
Those that are sucessfull WORK for their money,

lieu
Aussie
entitled
disappointing
possibility
successful

Cassa said...
I work in the building industry,

I guess there are no incentives for better spelling....

You can't have your cake and eat it. I used to hate that saying because it is bull****, but one day it dawned on me what it actually meant and now I reckon that too many people wanting to have their cake and eat it is one of the biggest problems going around.

Cassa seems to want his cake and wants to eat it. He wants to employee people but wants them to take an interest in their work beyond that which they signed up for.

The apprentice also seems to want to have his cake and eat it. Wants a nice job with (what sounds like) a decent employer, but also wants to milk it for what he can.

I guess someone will have to give in eventually and either eat their cake (and therefore not have any anymore), or move on to something like a crumble, slice etc.

Actually, I'm back to hating the cake-and-eat-it sating, it makes no f*ing sense at all. Anyone seen that masterchef show?

I guess at the end of the day its all about mutual obligation.

The employer (small business) has taken a considerable risk in developing and investing in a business that becomes very personal.

The employee takes a few years to learn and develop skills that may be of use to an employer.

However the lack of balance comes with the employer needing a faithful hard working employee much more than the employee needs the employer.
Therefore to correct this imbalance the employer has to be offering something different.

At my local mechanics the boss has employed his chief mechanic for over 25 years - and he reckons he can count the number of sickies he has taken in this time on one hand.
Is this because of love of work or because the boss is flexible appreciative and provides incentives to keep the crew motivated?

poor relative said...

I guess at the end of the day its all about mutual obligation.

The employer (small business) has taken a considerable risk in developing and investing in a business that becomes very personal.

The employee takes a few years to learn and develop skills that may be of use to an employer.

However the lack of balance comes with the employer needing a faithful hard working employee much more than the employee needs the employer.
Therefore to correct this imbalance the employer has to be offering something different.

At my local mechanics the boss has employed his chief mechanic for over 25 years - and he reckons he can count the number of sickies he has taken in this time on one hand.
Is this because of love of work or because the boss is flexible appreciative and provides incentives to keep the crew motivated?

You have hit the nail on the head there PR

^^^
that's a very clever idea...!

There is a philosophy of management widely used by the Japanese loosely termed Total Quality Management which completely erradicates sickies.

It works, I have seen it in one out of thirty odd places I have worked in, and it is the reason that Honda and Toyota sht all over GM and Ford in the states.

Honda workers are the lowest hourly paid auto workers in the US but consistently earn the highest take home wages.

Of course it would not do to look at something that empowers workers here!

Cassa said...

poor relative said...

As an Employer, Employees are your most valuable resource.
Without employees you have no business or at the very least no life.

Treat employees so that they feel appreciated, valued - an invaluable asset to the business even and i am sure your sick days will lessen - money is not everyones motivator.

If i was your employee i would have told you to shove your dull ass job up your arse.

Mungbean comments like that , I expect from you , 35 hrs per week for $800, as an 18yr old is good , no great money, he and I have a lot of fun at work ,as the rest of the crew do , you got to go every day so you might as well enjoy it .He just did the teenager thing and followed the pussy, we have all done that , and he regrets his shortcommings there.
In 30yrs employing people and learning to read them , my first impressions of them have always been right, so a zoob like you wouldnt have even got past the first day , and if you did get to the stage of telling me what to do with my job , the rest of the crew would have cracked up , I take great pleasure in the fact that , to date, I've had no quitters, and have never been sacked myself.
go back to your office job little johnny

800 for 35hours u betta be working him hard . after 40-50hour weeks i bring 600-700 thats with a 5.30 wake up

my guess - concreter.

I'll stand firm - I don't take anything back. If you think your employees are not entitled to their entitlements, you should look at changing the way you operate or consider a different vocation.

CJW said...

oliver said...

I'll stand firm - I don't take anything back. If you think your employees are not entitled to their entitlements, you should look at changing the way you operate or consider a different vocation.

Since when are sickies an 'entitlement' in the form that you elude to? They are effectively a Government enforced form of insurance in that case that you do actually get sick. They aren't just another 10 days a year (or whatever your award may be) of holiday leave, that sort of attitude is pretty poor in my opinion.

Think of it another way. Say you use up all your sick leave recovering from big nights out or whatever the case may be. Then you crash your kite/windsurfer and bust yourself up....what do you do now, holiday leave....leave without pay. Not very forward thinking....

Poor attitude or not. They are an entitlement, and are law. Believe it or not, plenty of employers have very poor attitudes also - you just need to look at the red thumbs cassa got when he posted this topic to work that out.

I've got to know myself pretty well in the past 45 years, and I know I've often found myself, when I'm tired, run down and maybe pissed at my boss, I've made poor decisions at work and have been rather counter productive as a result. Working long and hard doesn't necessarily mean working well.

Work smart, not hard is my motto.

In my experience it's not about the hours you put into a job, but more about the thought you put into it that's important.

Cassa obviously has experienced meeting a girl and the things that go with that. Isn't his young employee also entitled to do the same? Or is he expected to only meet girls during pre-arranged holiday periods. Are his parents expected to die at that time also, must he complete his tax, apply for a home loan during this specified period, is he allowed to go through any other personal crisis outside his holidays?

The 10 days entitled sick days are about allowing employees to take the odd day off, here and there, to allow them to live their life and deal with the unexpected things that face all of us, that we may not want our employer or anyone else to necessarily know about.

Only a sick "domineering" employer needs to know everything their employee is doing 24x7x52.

I think Cassa is un-australian to whine about fixing a sickie.

Interesting debate. For what it's worth, I do work for a big multinational. We're entitled to 52 weeks of sick leave in any 2 year period. No kidding, a whole year. We can even take "carer leave" if we need to take care of someone close in the family who is sick and that doesn't count as sick leave.

Despite that, it's pretty rare for people to take a sickie... annoyingly many keep coming to work even when they're obviously flu ridden. Don't really know why but I suspect that people who don't have that kind of work ethic probably would get weeded out.

oliver said...

Work smart, not hard is my motto.

In my experience it's not about the hours you put into a job, but more about the thought you put into it that's important.

This makes so much sense Oliver.

Whilst i don't have a lot of good to say about who i work for my immediate boss is fantastic and our team is in many ways independent of the main organisation.

We also have great conditions, 5 weeks annual leave plus 12 ADO's (work 80 hours paid 76) 10 public holidays and great penalty rates for after hours/weekend shifts.
We also work 12 hour shifts - 80 hour fortnights with 7 days off a fortnight. Plus when i finish a shift my work is done - mostly
With a package like that there is no need for a sickie.

CJW said...

I'm not sure what warped reality you live in where you expect work should pay for you to go and apply for a home loan, do your tax or meet your girl etc. What the f$#... I'd say 99% of employers in this country would have no problem if you went and did those things during work hours if a)you made up the time at a later stage, or b) didn't get payed for it. Can you honestly sit there and tell me that isn't realistic? Once again, it's sick leave not flexi time...

I've worked for some toe rags before, that reminded me of Cassa - domineering, un-australian, whining about their employees etc. I guess I've worked for the 1% of employers in this country you talk about. These were the sort of jobs where I'd watch the clock and count down the days to my next holiday. I remember at times, I'd get so fed up and tired of work, p1ssed off, whatever and would just call up in the morning saying that I ate Korean last night and was unfit for work. With these type of employers it was much easier to call up sick than talk with your stupid boss. My time was more important, and personally, I couldn't really care if I didn't get paid for it, but it was just easier to call a sickie.

(Quote) Oliver,
Work smart, not hard is my motto.

In my experience it's not about the hours you put into a job, but more about the thought you put into it that's important.
...........................................................................................................................
Well ,well , there are alot of people here with alot of different ideas , and thats good . BUT, certainly, there are different ways to approch each type of work environment.
Mine is Bricklaying, what works in my industry , definitely would not work in many other workplaces. Although it would apply to most sub-contractors way of work.
Not working hard is something I would have no idea about , in the few times that I have worked on wages I apply myself EXACTLY the same as if I was working for myself , FLAT OUT, there are only 2 speeds on this body at work stop ,and go .
I could never pace myself on the work of others. I take great pride in the fact that all that have employed me would NEVER forget the pace , and leadership qualities that I have brought to their teams.
Its just MY WORK ETHIC! It will never change

..............................

At $1 pr brick , the more you put , the more you get ,so when I crack away 500 bricks in 2 hours and the other 2 lay 100 and they get full pay for the 4hrs ,(friday just gone , this happens alot on fridays) they dont complain .
I dont expect them ever to be able to keep up with me , there has only been a few over the last 20 yrs (brothers, uncle ,partner -he is quicker,and one 6ft8 in
queenslander)
I'm here to teach,(AT work) I would love to see these guys making the kind of money that is possible for them, they are finally starting to see that, so all is good at work , and has been apart from the weeks of sickies.


As for your other comments OlIvEr , you just dont understand the sub-contractors way of life, , thats ok ,its obvious you never will. In bricklaying if ya dont WORK HARD , GO HOME, after all its just like being at the gym all day.

I couldnt give a rats toss, what they do after work , as long as when they come to work they give their best and try to learn, after all they are only kids.

If in 18mths ,(thats when I hit the beach almost full time) they can do half of what i do now at work I feel I will have had some success .



The sickie has been fixed for me