"We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public's imagination... So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts... Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest." - Stephen Schneider, Stanford Professor of Climatology, lead author of many IPCC reports

"Unless we announce disasters no one will listen." - Sir John Houghton, first chairman of IPCC

"It doesn't matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true." - Paul Watson, co-founder of Greenpeace

"We've got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy." - Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation

"No matter if the science of global warming is all phony... climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world." - Christine Stewart, fmr Canadian Minister of the Environment

"The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe." - emeritus professor Daniel Botkin

"We require a central organizing principle - one agreed to voluntarily. Minor shifts in policy, moderate improvement in laws and regulations, rhetoric offered in lieu of genuine change - these are all forms of appeasement, designed to satisfy the public’s desire to believe that sacrifice, struggle and a wrenching transformation of society will not be necessary." - Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

"Isn't the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn't it our responsiblity to bring that about?" - Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme

"A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation." - Paul Ehrlich, Professor of Population Studies

"The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can't let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are." - Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund

"Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty, reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control." - Professor Maurice King

"When the power of love overtakes the love of power, there will be peace." Jimi Hendrix.

Imagination is more important than education. Albert Einstein

ginger pom... some more quotes taken out of context and proving nothing.

you are living in self-denial my friend.

''it does not matter what is true, it only matters what people beliieve is true'' Paul Watson co-founder of Greenpeace''.

please explain how this can be taken out of context.

i suppose you also believe Gordon Brown was also being ''taken out of context and proving nothing'' when he called for a New World Order, something like 6 times in a speech he gave a few months back.

if evidence like this is allowed to be dismissed as ''out of context'' then this would make a mockery of the courts.

larry silverstein '' i spoke to the firefighter commander and we have had such terrible loss of life that we decided the best thing to do was PULL the building and we stood back and watched the building collapse''.

you cannot stand back and watch a building collapse unless it is a PLANNED building collapse.

this is an obvious fact to all.... short of those living in self-denial.

do you believe also Larry Silverstein was being ''taken out of context and proving nothing'' when he gaffed live on television by saying this.

Squid Lips said...

My cat's breath smells like cat food. Ralph Wiggum

Best and only sensible quote in the whole collection!

The world will not run out of resources. The best recource the world has is increasing and gaining quality all the time. That resource is the human intellect.

petermac33 said...

ginger pom... some more quotes taken out of context and proving nothing.

you are living in self-denial my friend.

''it does not matter what is true, it only matters what people beliieve is true'' Paul Watson co-founder of Greenpeace''.

please explain how this can be taken out of context.

i suppose you also believe Gordon Brown was also being ''taken out of context and proving nothing'' when he called for a New World Order, something like 6 times in a speech he gave a few months back.

if evidence like this is allowed to be dismissed as ''out of context'' then this would make a mockery of the courts.

larry silverstein '' i spoke to the firefighter commander and we have had such terrible loss of life that we decided the best thing to do was PULL the building and we stood back and watched the building collapse''.

you cannot stand back and watch a building collapse unless it is a PLANNED building collapse.

this is an obvious fact to all.... short of those living in self-denial.

do you believe also Larry Silverstein was being ''taken out of context and proving nothing'' when he gaffed live on television by saying this.

You have walked straight into this one!!

To everyone else, Larry Silverstein wasn't referring to the twin towers. He was referring to the World Trade centre 7 - a building next door that got hit by the falling towers - and later fell. Peter holds a commonly held conspiracy theory about 911 being caused by the US government or some evil subdivision of it...

I'm not a civil engineer but I do accept that civil engineers know more about it than I do...

http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm

Suffice to say that you believe that 911 was an action by the US government... and I don't


Next point

We may need to do something to the way that we govern/oversee the world in order to deal with climate change. This is because there's too much of a free rider benefit for countries. Free rider is a concept from game theory that means someone can take advantage of a benefit while contributing nothing to it.

Climate change is similar - all countries will get the benefits of reduced climate change regardless of their contributions towards it. So why should any of them bother to change their own policies. There's no disincentive not to be the dirtiest most CO2 emitting country in the world. If countries cannot be made to keep their promises then what hope do we have...

Of course, you wouldn't trust this new world order because you believe that the current world order sent two planes into the twin towers...

Next point (and my favorite)

''it does not matter what is true, it only matters what people beliieve is true'' Paul Watson co-founder of Greenpeace.

IT IS TRUE THAT Paul Watson is not in Greenpeace any more and was thrown out of Greenpeace before I was born in 1977. By referring to him as the co-founder but omitting to mention that he left 32 years ago, you are misleading people. He was definitely an early member but that's it...

Therefore you have misled the other people on this thread for some reason.

Either you are ignorant and you didn't check the first paragraph of the Wikipedia page on Paul Watson

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Watson

... or you did it on purpose and you yourself agree with the quote.

To be clearer... In your next post please answer with I AM IGNORANT or I BELIEVE THE QUOTE

The quote is valid. It's not evil or manipulative. People act on their beliefs. If something is true and no-one believes it then no one will act on it. If climate change is true but no-one believes it then no one will act on it... as a leader of an organisation (He is the founder and president of Sea Shepherd - an organisation which stops Japanese people killing whales and judging by car stickers is EXTREMELY well supported by surfers and windsurfers), he is suggesting that focus goes into convincing people of the truth... rather than squandering time convincing deliberately stubborn people on windsurfing forums when you should be out in the garage cleaning the van out...

show me who is throwing democracy out the window.

the UN is democratic, the NWO as it has been described is also democratic.

show me how it isn't,

it's australia's democratically elected leader that was been arguing the toss with all of the other democratically elected leaders. and in the end they all had to come to a democratic outcome. which they did.

if you don't like the outcome then tuff titty as it was democratic process that gave us the outcome.

ADS said...

^^^^
Bollocks, there's nothing democrtatic about a binding agreement, that once your in your in - AND that has financial penalties imposed by an entitiy that is NOT the democratically elected Australian government. Guess who pays sunshine? that's right the Aussie taxpayer. Nah, we shouldn't be concerned at all...

WRONG, sunshine. That's the democratic process. We, the people, elect the leaders to lead including entering us into agreements. If you, an individual, don't like what they do when they're leading then tough titty (as gestalt aptly put it). Don't like it? Then go live in communist Russia.

Oh, wait...

ginger pom said...

ADS said...

^^^^
Bollocks, there's nothing democrtatic about a binding agreement, that once your in your in - AND that has financial penalties imposed by an entitiy that is NOT the democratically elected Australian government. Guess who pays sunshine? that's right the Aussie taxpayer. Nah, we shouldn't be concerned at all...

"Yes, agreements that aren't binding, that once you're in you can decide not to be in and that don't impose any penalties are much more effective.

Democracy is being able to change your mind every day and not live with the consequences"

So let me get this right, you don't care if we lose our sovereignty and therefore freedom? and for an agreement that will not fix a problem that does not exist?
I respect your right to an opinion after all we (currently) live in a democrtic society, but maybe you should go live in communist China comrade

cisco said...

The world will not run out of resources. The best recource the world has is increasing and gaining quality all the time. That resource is the human intellect.

Hey cisco, how do you spell your name again? It's C-A-N-U-T-E right?

There is an excellent book titled "Collapse - How Societies Choose to Fail or Survive" by a guy called Jared Diamond which would be good reading for many contributors to this thread on either side of the argument. He looks at past civilisations, how and why they collapsed - or indeed avoided collapse.

some more quotes

"That's the thing about Mother Nature, she really doesn't care what economic bracket you're in."

— Whoopi Goldberg

"Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once."

— Woody Allen

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened."

— Douglas Adams

"For 200 years we've been conquering nature. Now we're beating it to death."

— Tom McMillan

"Why should I care about future generations? What have they ever done for me?"

— Groucho Marx

"According to a survey in this week's Time magazine, 85% of Americans think global warming is happening. The other 15% work for the White House."

— Jay Leno

"President Bush has a plan [to fight global warming]. He says that if we need to, we can lower the temperature dramatically just by switching from Fahrenheit to Celsius."

— Jimmy Kimmel

"The Union of Concerned Scientists says the Bush administration manipulates and suppresses science. The administration points out that the Union of Bought and Paid for Scientists disagrees."

— Fark.com

"Some folks believe that global warming doesn't exist and that the environment doesn't need any help. I tend not to listen to them."

— Robert Wagner


"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."

— Dan Quayle, former US vice president

"We have met the enemy and he is us."

— Walt Kelly (from "Pogo")

"We have found the sources of hazardous waste and they are us."

— US EPA, from "Everybody's Problem: Hazardous Waste"

"The sum of intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing."

— Cole's axiom

"Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the streets after them."

— Bill Vaughan

"The greenest house is the one that never gets built."

— Whit Faulconer, GreenBlue

"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time."

— Steven Wright

"I think that all good, right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that all good, right thinking people in this country are fed up with being told that all good, right thinking people in this country are fed up with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not, and I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."

— Monty Python

"Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist."

— Kenneth Boulding

"Fall is my favorite season in Los Angeles, watching the birds change color and fall from the trees."

— David Letterman

"There's so much pollution in the air now that if it weren't for our lungs there'd be no place to put it all."

— Robert Orben

"I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants."

— A. Whitney Brown

"Wolves are very resourceful. All they need to survive is for people not to shoot them."

— Bob Ferris

"Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer."

— Dave Barry

cisco said...

I think this is it here mate. unfccc.int/resource/docs/2009/awglca7/eng/inf02.pdf

Finally! A credible source. Thank you cisco.

Though it'll take a while and some work. These types of documents are usually laced with that element much loved by bureaucrats - mindnumborium

i do believe paul watson was co-founder for greenpeace.

http://www.activistcash.com/biography.cfm/bid/3370

ginger pom......i do accept civil engineers know more about it than i do.

www.ae911truth.org/

what is it....985 architects + engineers have signed a petition calling for a new independent investigation of 911.

the majority of these saying it was a controlled demolition including founder Richard Gage.

ginger pom.....can you please explain to me how it is possible to ''stand back and watch the building collapse''........as Larry Silverstein said...... unless it was a planned building collapse.

perhaps you think Larry Silverstein has some physic powers.

he used this physic power to know when exactly the 650foot superstructure[building 7] was going to collapse, thus allowing himself ''to stand back and watch the building collapse''.

if we are being lied to about one of the largest events in history[911], is it not safe to assume we are also being lied to about this man -made climate change.

yeah of course. and of course you didn't read the document and of course you are quoting more missleading gutter journalism.

are you aware that there is nearly 20 different methods of which it is suggested the cost of global warming can be achieved. what you have linked to in the article is only 1 of those. munkdon has a lot to answer for!

but here is the clincher and why i asked the question above. are you ready.

"there is no signed binding agreement between any countries"

it doesn't exist! funny stuff hey, what do all of the "non believers and conspiracy theorists in this thread have to say about that.

furthermore.

each countrry that attended the summit and made "verbal" commitments to environmental goals.

"now has to get those commitments through their respective parliments"

not very new world order is it and sounds very democratic and sovereign

now don't take this personally but

i find it funny how the people arguing that global warming is false or a big conspiracy are also the ones that can't produce any facts to support their claims, have no understanding of political process or law and little understanding of the copenhagen summit and it's purpose.

in the end the conspiracy was actually created by conspiracists.