anti smoking

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worrier
worrier
WA
726 posts
WA, 726 posts
24 Jun 2013 4:01pm
Didn't realise I said it was the only cause of respitory cancer
I just read it again to make sure.
DaylightDebt
DaylightDebt
WA
296 posts
WA, 296 posts
24 Jun 2013 4:08pm
You implied that the expense was incurred due to smoking related cancers, most cancers are expensive to treat.
The cost of a whole lung or lobe to be removed on the scheme of things is reasonably cheap!
worrier
worrier
WA
726 posts
WA, 726 posts
24 Jun 2013 4:10pm
THE COSTS

The most well-known estimate of costs associated with tobacco abuse in Australia was undertaken by Collins and Lapsley on behalf of the Department of Community Services and Health in 1991. This study estimates the total cost of tobacco abuse for 1988 as $6.8 billion, representing nearly 50% of the total cost of drug abuse in Australia.

The study also takes into account the loss of production due to sickness and death as a result of smoking and the intangible costs of tobacco abuse such as loss of life and human suffering. These intangible costs are estimated at more than $6 billion and account for the bulk of the total costs of tobacco abuse.

graph

REVENUE FROM SMOKING

The Australian Bureau of Statistics estimate that revenue from tobacco sales in 1988-89 was $3.5 billion.

Obviously, when comparing revenue from smoking ($3.5 billion) with economic costs $6 billion(, the costs of smoking to the community far outweigh the benefits.


This is pretty old data and the costs of treatment have gone up far quicker than revenue raised. I love arguing with smokers almost as much as arguing with Jehovas that God is a myth.
W
DaylightDebt
DaylightDebt
WA
296 posts
WA, 296 posts
24 Jun 2013 4:32pm
worrier said...
THE COSTS

The most well-known estimate of costs associated with tobacco abuse in Australia was undertaken by Collins and Lapsley on behalf of the Department of Community Services and Health in 1991. This study estimates the total cost of tobacco abuse for 1988 as $6.8 billion, representing nearly 50% of the total cost of drug abuse in Australia.

The study also takes into account the loss of production due to sickness and death as a result of smoking and the intangible costs of tobacco abuse such as loss of life and human suffering. These intangible costs are estimated at more than $6 billion and account for the bulk of the total costs of tobacco abuse.

graph

REVENUE FROM SMOKING

The Australian Bureau of Statistics estimate that revenue from tobacco sales in 1988-89 was $3.5 billion.

Obviously, when comparing revenue from smoking ($3.5 billion) with economic costs $6 billion(, the costs of smoking to the community far outweigh the benefits.


This is pretty old data and the costs of treatment have gone up far quicker than revenue raised. I love arguing with smokers almost as much as arguing with Jehovas that God is a myth.
W
Yes this study is old! and relies heavily on estimation! Figures which are compiled against a hypothetical disease free population.

With the above average rise in cost of cigarettes and slow reduction of smokers, I'm sure smokers are covering the costs of there's and others disease processes.

Smoking is often a co morbidity, a compounded problem with other lifestyle issues. So to accurately project figures directly relating to smoking would be a very difficult task.

If the government could save money by banning smoking it would have been done.




Milsy
Milsy
NSW
1176 posts
NSW, 1176 posts
24 Jun 2013 6:46pm
worrier said..

One line missing from that graph is the cost of treatment for smokers with all the cancers etc. You need a bigger graph.
I cant remember the exact figures but it has been crunched and published many times before.
The revenue raised from selling smokes is about 10% of what is required to treat smokers until they die.
Not many good ways to die but smoking related cancer would have to be down there with the worst of them. I don't give a **** if smokers die a horrible death I just wish they would all die quicker and nastier then maybe just maybe the message would get through but I doubt it.
As the president of the company who makes Marlborough once said to the original Marlborough man when offered a smoke, "no thanks smoking is for the poor the black and the stupid"
W


thats harsh man, im not sure if a quicker death is what you want it your hoping for a nastier one,.......................your crazy charming!
WA71
WA71
WA
1382 posts
WA, 1382 posts
24 Jun 2013 4:50pm
Milsy said..
worrier said..



One line missing from that graph is the cost of treatment for smokers with all the cancers etc. You need a bigger graph.

I cant remember the exact figures but it has been crunched and published many times before.

The revenue raised from selling smokes is about 10% of what is required to treat smokers until they die.

Not many good ways to die but smoking related cancer would have to be down there with the worst of them. I don't give a **** if smokers die a horrible death I just wish they would all die quicker and nastier then maybe just maybe the message would get through but I doubt it.

As the president of the company who makes Marlborough once said to the original Marlborough man when offered a smoke, "no thanks smoking is for the poor the black and the stupid"

W


thats harsh man, im not sure if a quicker death is what you want it your hoping for a nastier one,.......................your crazy charming!

+1 after watching two close family members die of cancer, I wouldnt wish that on anybody.....
Rus13b
Rus13b
NSW
271 posts
NSW, 271 posts
24 Jun 2013 6:59pm
The govenment got 5.45 billon from smoke sales 2011/12.
Dream on if you think smoking will ever be banned.
unless you anti smoking greenys can come up with that much cash
another way. Maybe just put fuel & food prices up some more, what about
a over weight tax, over 95kg payes $10 for every kg over a month till death.
sounds fair, smokers pay to kill themselves so should over weight people or
anyone you can single out for doing things that are bad for there health.
windsurfing costs the country money with medical bills, tax that to hey.
Razzonater
Razzonater
2224 posts
2224 posts
24 Jun 2013 5:02pm
But im overweight and smoke it means i cant afford to live
Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
24 Jun 2013 7:14pm
Ex smoker here and I don't harbour any grudges.

What does bug me is that it's okay to tell people they have a disgusting habit but its unkind to say it to a fat person stuffing their face with junk food? Sounds pretty hypocritical to me, especially given how many people here probably hit their body with plenty of junk food.

Not the same? I'm pretty sure everyone here would have been stuck on a plane next to an obese person. Or been subject to alcohol based violence in some form. I agree on banning it, but while we do, let's ban alcohol, soft drinks, junk food, anything sugary because you all know that obesity overtook smoking as the biggest killer don't you? And let's all wish the fat people a misery death while we're at it because they did it to themselves so they must also deserve it.

And finally when we've banned everything remotely bad for you we can all sit at home eating lettuce leaves and watching videos of how we used to be able to kite
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
24 Jun 2013 5:24pm
Smoking is great. More people should be into it.

Cull population puts money in the coffers..... pun

I think people who smoke should feel the wrath of prejudice tho.
Smokers should pay more tax they should wear 'i am stupid and have no willpower' badges they should be forced to smoke in the street welfare take their kids away and when their breathing gets tough they should be publicly stoned.
Razzonater
Razzonater
2224 posts
2224 posts
24 Jun 2013 5:46pm
Lettuce leaves make you tired there dangerous
briann8300
briann8300
NSW
144 posts
NSW, 144 posts
24 Jun 2013 7:56pm
...individuals who wish to destroy their health by smoking should be able to make that choice as long as there are lots of strong medical outlines available in which the dangers to them are explained....those who choose not to smoke should be protected from passive smoke and the cost of health care for those that do...society should recoup the cost of treating smoking related diseases at the point of smoking sales...I think the current government policies are on the correct path but we need more education .....

Rex
Rex
WA
949 posts
Rex Rex
WA, 949 posts
24 Jun 2013 5:58pm
Saffer said..

Ex smoker here and I don't harbour any grudges.

I agree on banning it, but while we do, let's ban alcohol, soft drinks, junk food,


I wonder how the social and financial cost of smoking compares to that of alcohol consumption, the alcohol culture of Australia would be the obvious priority.
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
24 Jun 2013 5:59pm
I think assaulting people who smoke cigarettes and cigars should be legal
ka43
ka43
NSW
3101 posts
NSW, 3101 posts
24 Jun 2013 8:19pm
You know what?? If people want to smoke then that's their choice. I for one don't like breathing the second hand smoke but until society and/or the government ban it altogether then its not illegal and the government makes a ****load of money from it.
Attitudes change slowly plus as of this Wednesday its been 10 bloody years since I gave up so I don't care
worrier
worrier
WA
726 posts
WA, 726 posts
24 Jun 2013 6:52pm
yep and I will probably die a horrible painful death of cancer from passive smoking.
I spent years in confined spaces laying bricks with 2 pack a day smokers, then went to the crib room and had to eat while they smoked, then got in the bus / ute home while they smoked then had tea in the mess or restaurant while they smoked beside me then went into the bar where everyone smoked and the pubs didn't bother with ventilation..
Anyone else remember those good old days when smokers enjoyed their right to smoke wherever they wanted.

Do I care about smokers rights.
Na

W
gibberjoe
gibberjoe
SA
956 posts
SA, 956 posts
25 Jun 2013 6:12am

one dosn't need a reason to smoke ! non thinkers do it well

one needs reasoning to stop, the penny drops.

as an X smoker [pack 20 per day for 15 years] i needed a reason

at 42 and the birth of my daughter I asked "what can I give this kid for life?"

so.... I threw the last of an opened pack and the spare pack i carried in the truck, out the window

that were the last time I smoked, 27 years ago, it was a battle for a couple of years

I know, had i continued i would be dead 15 years ago, im ok but it left it's mark

I have mild COPD but with good life practices i will live to eighty.

dont know that i wish to live longer than that. Get your reason to live, then do it.
myusernam
myusernam
QLD
6158 posts
QLD, 6158 posts
25 Jun 2013 7:07am
u should see the amount of them outside any public hospital. In a wheelchair with IV pole, freshly amputated limb - smoking!

Fxck no there should be no rights, not unless they pay for all medical and ambulance cover.

Smokers talk shxt. They spend so much time talking inane bshxt with strangers at the smoke areas. Also they get really stylised witht he way they smoke, hold their fag, blow out their smoke etc. It's part of their cool. It's like it fxcks withtheir brain as well. At least it lets you know straight away if a person is a tard.
Rupert
Rupert
TAS
2967 posts
TAS, 2967 posts
25 Jun 2013 8:48am
I find it amusing that some of the rampant anti tobacco lobby advocate the legalisation of another vegetable product that is smoked.

Nothing like a 'anti smoking' thread to bring venomous comments and vitriol to the fore.

If you choose to smoke go ahead, but please don't approach me and engage me in conversation with a durrie hanging out of your head.

A little bit of respect on both sides of the fence goes a long way. I don't smoke but I do not select friends and acquaintances based on one's addiction.

Smoking is legal - the choice is up to the individual.
fingerbone
fingerbone
NSW
921 posts
NSW, 921 posts
25 Jun 2013 8:52am
Unhook3d said..

1st jan 2000 is a great idea. People's
Right to smoke shouldn't be removed altogether however, but they should be made to smoke in specific areas like in Japan.


But I don't want to go all the way to Japan for a durry.



Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
25 Jun 2013 9:12am
When I was a smoker, passive smokers used to bug the crap out of me. They're too cheap to buy their own.
fingerbone
fingerbone
NSW
921 posts
NSW, 921 posts
25 Jun 2013 9:16am
myusernam said..

u should see the amount of them outside any public hospital. In a wheelchair with IV pole, freshly amputated limb - smoking!

Fxck no there should be no rights, not unless they pay for all medical and ambulance cover.

Smokers talk shxt. They spend so much time talking inane bshxt with strangers at the smoke areas. Also they get really stylised witht he way they smoke, hold their fag, blow out their smoke etc. It's part of their cool. It's like it fxcks withtheir brain as well. At least it lets you know straight away if a person is a tard.


Wow you seem wound up pretty tight there.
Smokes in Australia = $20 pack
Smokes in Bali = $1.70 pack
When you pay over $4000 dollars a year extra tax to the Gov I recon you have paid your medical and Ambulance cover.
Tux
Tux
VIC
3829 posts
Tux Tux
VIC, 3829 posts
25 Jun 2013 9:32am
Just make everyone who wants to smoke, drink booze, take drugs get a licence to do so...when you get your licence you will be able to by the product of your choice from a licensed distributor where your purchase gets recorded and you get taxed accordingly...i.e the more you smoke,drink take drugs the more you get taxed...also the level of tax is adjusted according to the level of harm your chosen product does to the community...
Rupert
Rupert
TAS
2967 posts
TAS, 2967 posts
25 Jun 2013 10:19am
Tux said..

Just make everyone who wants to smoke, drink booze, take drugs get a licence to do so...when you get your licence you will be able to by the product of your choice from a licensed distributor where your purchase gets recorded and you get taxed accordingly...i.e the more you smoke,drink take drugs the more you get taxed...also the level of tax is adjusted according to the level of harm your chosen product does to the community...



Make sense to me......
Shane10
Shane10
QLD
102 posts
QLD, 102 posts
25 Jun 2013 10:31am
What's the point of smoking? It puzzles me that people chuff away all day for no apparent buzz.

If its stress relief you're after try wanking, it's probably more socially acceptable these days anyway!
Independent
Independent
NSW
56 posts
NSW, 56 posts
25 Jun 2013 11:30am
For most smokers who wish to give up as mentioned in this thread and else where, the common point is that of addiction.

The comment on banning it... well, let's see, if the Government on behalf of the people made Nicotine illegal and forced cigarette manufacturers to remove it from their products, the chances of someone being "Hooked" to an addictive drug would be removed. Young kids wouldn't become addicted and people who do smoke would gradually give up.

Nicotine in a smokable product should be banned and the government held accountable from profiting from a lethal addictive drug that they allow to be sold.


poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
25 Jun 2013 9:42am
I guess the funny thing is Nicotene itself isn't actually any more harmful to a person than say caffiene

However i still think smokers need to be put into detention centres until they are free from the habit.
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15100 posts
WA, 15100 posts
25 Jun 2013 9:53am
poor relative said..

I guess the funny thing is Nicotene itself isn't actually any more harmful to a person than say caffiene

However i still think smokers need to be put into detention centres until they are free from the habit.



I tried to get my mother to use e-cigarettes instead of smokes, figuring that it would be safer for her than smoking... Nope, she still can't acknowledge the danger and keeps on smoking away.

I think the government should make e-cigarettes available on prescription as a way to encourage smokers to take them up instead of smoking. In theory they would get the same nicotine, but in a safer delivery method.

I understand it is a very hard thing to give up. Dad only gave up when he realised that it was physically hard for him to breathe. Hopefully the problem reverses itself.

Independent
Independent
NSW
56 posts
NSW, 56 posts
25 Jun 2013 11:59am
poor relative said..

I guess the funny thing is Nicotene itself isn't actually any more harmful to a person than say caffiene

However i still think smokers need to be put into detention centres until they are free from the habit.



^ ^ ^ and your point is what? removal of a person from society due to an addiction which is "Legal"???

That the individual who IS suffering from the effects of an ill informed decision earlier in their life, which has been perpetuated by OUR Government profiting from the peddling of an addictive drug should have their freedoms removed?

Reconsider your opinion regarding how damaging and addictive Nicotine is, in it's most pure form the product is as lethal as cyanide, if you think back to previous government anti smoking campaigns. The reason why they probably stop these adds is that most people would have linked the government to poisoning a percentage of the population and profiting from it.

The reason the government WILL NOT legislate to ban nicotine is that the tobacco industry lobbyists wouldn't let it ever become law.

Caffiene .v. Nicotine? How many cups of coffee would someone need to drink in a day? and at what level to match the same effect on the body? I haven't seen a huge public outcry to ban Caffiene in Coffee, Tea and other products!
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
25 Jun 2013 10:08am
Independent said..


poor relative said..

I guess the funny thing is Nicotene itself isn't actually any more harmful to a person than say caffiene

However i still think smokers need to be put into detention centres until they are free from the habit.




^ ^ ^ and your point is what? removal of a person from society due to an addiction which is "Legal"???





Exactly that.

Enforced rehab if you like. Anyone escapes shoot them
I also think that if people are seen smoking in the street arrest them - make it illegal and allow the cops to beat them up.
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