Who sold my details to marketing database? Caught!

> 10 years ago
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kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
17 Sep 2013 9:27am
So the other day I received a letter fully addressed to me. Opened it up, was a 'you have won' type thing from www.pieroth.com.au saying that by filling in a survey they would give me free whiskey tumblers and wines.
Turns out that to claim your prize you have to have the man come and let you taste his wines in your home and pressure you into buying some.

Now the funny thing is that I'm not on any marketing databases. This is the one and only marketing letter with my full name, address, and knowledge of my age. Wonder how they got my details?

Sent them a complaint/threat. Response below.

Dear David,
In response to your query, we received your address details from Acxiom, a third party data supplier.
Their contact details if you would like to follow up with them are:

Phone: 02 9032 3200
Email: consumercare@acxiom.com

Regards
------
Pieroth
Unit 14, 12 Mars Road
Lane Cove NSW 2066


Hmm turns out acxiom is a big nasty, a shadowy data mining company that collects info about everyone from everywhere (and won't explain where/how the data is collected)
theweek.com/articles/474509/acxiom-corp-faceless-organization-that-knows-everything-about

So I sent Acxiom a complaint/threat as before:
Hi,
I have recently been informed that my details have been sold to 3rd parties by your company.
I don't believe I am currently on any other promotional databases.
Please let me know:
1. Who provided my details to your company?
and
2. How to do got off your database?

I believe I have a right to both of these answers under Australian consumer law, and I will certainly be researching this area, and the appropriate forums to take further action and/or raise awareness, while waiting for you reply.


Finally after 3 reminders and waiting 2 months for me to forget about it, they came back with this.

Dear Mr .-----
Sorry not to have got back to you earlier.
We sourced your information from following details
Originally sourced by historical issues of the QLD ER and also from National Change of Address details. NCOA:
As of the 26th August 2013 we have removed your name and address details form out marketing database .
Regards
Nicholas ----
Consumer Care


Now historical Electoral Rolls are available until 2004 - so only useful to check birthdate (no other details would be relevant for me, I've moved and changed all numbers heaps of times)

So the winner is...

-----> AUSTRALIA POST <-----


That's it folks, if you use Australia Post's mail redirection service, they'll sell you onto the country's biggest marketing database.

You have been warned.
lightwood
lightwood
VIC
392 posts
VIC, 392 posts
17 Sep 2013 10:08am
Is it legal for them to on sell your details? I made the mistake of trying to unsubscribe from an AD fax service one time, the faxes immediately tripled.
DunkO
DunkO
NSW
1150 posts
NSW, 1150 posts
17 Sep 2013 10:25am
What are the wines like?
Chris6791
Chris6791
WA
3271 posts
WA, 3271 posts
17 Sep 2013 8:33am
Kiteboydave, I completed a change of address/mail redirection thingy only a few weeks ago I'm pretty sure there is a box that clearly covers passing your details onto 'third party partners', is there any chance you filled the form in without reading it properly?
Wineman
Wineman
NSW
1412 posts
NSW, 1412 posts
17 Sep 2013 10:38am

Way Overpriced. Somewhat dodgy quality & suspect origin - as you would expect for a product sold on commission only
& under pressure selling.

A good(?) research project if you are studying marketing/sales/hard core selling
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
17 Sep 2013 12:59pm
Chris6791 said..

Kiteboydave, I completed a change of address/mail redirection thingy only a few weeks ago I'm pretty sure there is a box that clearly covers passing your details onto 'third party partners', is there any chance you filled the form in without reading it properly?


I dunno. Looks like an 'opt in' not an 'opt out' option.


Share your new address

For your convenience at no additional charge, we can provide your new address to organisation's that contact us (if they already know your name and old address).

[ ] I am happy for Australia Post to provide my new address to organisations that already know me.

Promotions & offers

As part of your Mail Redirection service, we can send you valuable information via mail which can help you in your new home ??? such as free offers, discounts, and information about other products and services from Australia Post and participating businesses.

[ ] Via email

kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
17 Sep 2013 1:56pm
Chris6791 said..

Kiteboydave, I completed a change of address/mail redirection thingy only a few weeks ago I'm pretty sure there is a box that clearly covers passing your details onto 'third party partners', is there any chance you filled the form in without reading it properly?


Yes there is a chance I would unintentionally miss a check box. But I would never unintentionally Opt-in. However they might have changed from Opt-out to Opt-in since I filled in the form originally, I'm sure they must cop some flak for this.

Re the wine: I currently drink this:
www.1stchoice.com.au/Red%20Wine/hidden-gem-cabernet-merlot-750ml-2013_9861816
I'm strongly of the belief that $2.85 is all you should pay for table wine. So those ones might be ok but outta my league!


myusernam
myusernam
QLD
6158 posts
QLD, 6158 posts
17 Sep 2013 4:51pm
Kiteboy dave you should write to australia post and post up the outcome! could be very interesting....

ot massive fan cat amongst the pigeons shiraz. do you rate wineman?
myusernam
myusernam
QLD
6158 posts
QLD, 6158 posts
17 Sep 2013 4:54pm
kiteboy dave said..

Chris6791 said..

Kiteboydave, I completed a change of address/mail redirection thingy only a few weeks ago I'm pretty sure there is a box that clearly covers passing your details onto 'third party partners', is there any chance you filled the form in without reading it properly?


Yes there is a chance I would unintentionally miss a check box. But I would never unintentionally Opt-in. However they might have changed from Opt-out to Opt-in since I filled in the form originally, I'm sure they must cop some flak for this.

Re the wine: I currently drink this:
www.1stchoice.com.au/Red%20Wine/hidden-gem-cabernet-merlot-750ml-2013_9861816
I'm strongly of the belief that $2.85 is all you should pay for table wine. So those ones might be ok but outta my league!




jebus - $2.85! Even in my uni days I got the second cheapest cask of claret!
The chateu tundra or whatever it was the black fellas in the park were drinking wasn't classy enuf even back then.
alway preferred don comillo over passion pop also!
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
17 Sep 2013 5:44pm
myusernam said..
Kiteboy dave you should write to australia post and post up the outcome! could be very interesting....


I'm doing just that. Interestingly and somewhat ironically, filling in the "contact us" form involves all your details (mandatory) and then they have 2 Opt-In marketing boxes that you have to pass by just to contact them. Talk about opportunistic.




kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
17 Sep 2013 5:52pm
myusernam said..
jebus - $2.85! Even in my uni days I got the second cheapest cask of claret!
The chateu tundra or whatever it was the black fellas in the park were drinking wasn't classy enuf even back then.
alway preferred don comillo over passion pop also!


Lol give it a go sometime, the problem with all the bottom end wines is that they blend up whatever they get, seems to be consistent for about 3-6 months, they have great patches and ordinary patches. When it's ordinary you bail to the next one which has hopefully come good again.

I was just looking for another to show you, but this is back on special - normally $8. I will stretch for $4.80 for this stuff.
www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_73984/mcguigan-black-label-red

This one is also great, was $3.75 (upper end of my table wine price range ) but they were selling it out as fast as it came in, so upped it now unfortunately. I consider it too pricey now, can do better, but a lovely drop.
danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_99574/somerton-shiraz-cabernet-merlot
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
17 Sep 2013 5:57pm
Here is Australia Post advertising your details for sale

ikw777
ikw777
QLD
2995 posts
QLD, 2995 posts
17 Sep 2013 7:33pm
That's fakking diabolical!

'sfunny, I don't remember Australia Post being privatised. I guess I missed that memo.
needsalt
needsalt
NSW
385 posts
NSW, 385 posts
17 Sep 2013 10:17pm
A sort of similar issue - the last month or so I've received two or three missed calls a day from 08 6228 4014 and 03 9020 2875. When I Google them, there's lots of stuff about scams and telemarketers. I have no idea why I am suddenly on their list. I know it's childish, but I'm freaking well NOT going to answer. I keep hoping they will give up but it's not looking good at this stage. My great strategy at this point is wait until iOS 7 comes out - apparently it will have call blocking. Any idea what the go is or any hot tips? Aside from answer the phone you idiot

I am not impressed by personally addressed propaganda from election candidates either. I guess they have access to the current electoral roll? Or is it only sitting members? If I want to know stuff about how good you think you are, I'll look it up. Why is it so much to ask to be left alone?
Hobie1463
Hobie1463
SA
449 posts
SA, 449 posts
18 Sep 2013 1:19am
All this is very interesting reading. I really liked the part about the wines. Absolute gold.
Chris6791
Chris6791
WA
3271 posts
WA, 3271 posts
18 Sep 2013 12:35am
It would be interesting to see whether kiteboydave had a brain fart when he filled in the form and accidentally opted in for their marketing crap or whether AusPost have taken it upon themselves to opt him in regardless of his wishes.

As far as telemarketers go I have a 100% foolproof method of screening their calls. If the phone rings I know it's a telemarketer, I haven't given my landline number to anyone, not even family so no-one has it, if the phone rings I can safely ignore it. Works a treat.
Wineman
Wineman
NSW
1412 posts
NSW, 1412 posts
18 Sep 2013 9:41am
myusernam said..

ot massive fan cat amongst the pigeons shiraz. do you rate wineman?


Haven't tried that one....yet
But credentials & origin look OK.

If KiteBoy likes the $2.85 wines & it floats his boat, then that is great.
I mean some Qld'ers even like 4XXXX Gold , compared to a boutique beer.

Taste is subjective, & often you believe what you want to believe
worrier
worrier
WA
726 posts
WA, 726 posts
18 Sep 2013 8:30am
Berberana Tempraillo 2010 in the Spanish section of Dan Murphys for $5.80
pretty good.
W
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
18 Sep 2013 12:31pm
Wineman said..
If KiteBoy likes the $2.85 wines & it floats his boat, then that is great.
I mean some Qld'ers even like 4XXXX Gold , compared to a boutique beer.
Taste is subjective, & often you believe what you want to believe


My tastes are pretty lowbrow .. I know my palate is fairly undeveloped. I like a smooth red, not harsh on the throat, with some tannins tho, not too sweet, feels 'thick' in the mouth not watery, and I have a strong sense of 'fizzy' and don't like it.

As for beer, to be honest I've never met a beer I don't like. Well there's TUN and I had some 20c/litre stuf they serve in plastic bags on the street in vietnam that had pukey undertone, then there was chibuku in a tribal village in Zimbabwe, that reeked of vomit. So I guess you'd say never met a beer in an aussie shop that I couldn't make friends with.

^will try that worrier, looks good.
Pitbull
Pitbull
WA
1267 posts
WA, 1267 posts
18 Sep 2013 10:49am
Maybe a complaint to one of the current affair shows may prompt a segment to be filmed. I'd look forward to seeing how far they get with their investigations.
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
18 Sep 2013 1:42pm
I don't watch TT/ACA so I'm not really keen to suffer the loss of dignity involved with actually appearing on one of them
busterwa
busterwa
3782 posts
3782 posts
18 Sep 2013 11:55am
dont go to public !you might get mob lynching by some rich nerds.



Tux
Tux
VIC
3829 posts
Tux Tux
VIC, 3829 posts
18 Sep 2013 1:58pm
kiteboy dave said..

I don't watch TT/ACA so I'm not really keen to suffer the loss of dignity involved with actually appearing on one of them


Just ask them to blur your face...last thing you want is Aus Post getting the **** with you...goodbye mail
Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
18 Sep 2013 6:17pm
busterwa said..

dont go to public !you might get mob lynching by some rich nerds.





Is that Katy Perry?
myusernam
myusernam
QLD
6158 posts
QLD, 6158 posts
18 Sep 2013 6:45pm
Wineman said..


myusernam said..

ot massive fan cat amongst the pigeons shiraz. do you rate wineman?


\
I mean some Qld'ers even like 4XXXX Gold ,




erm, guilty as charged!
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
18 Sep 2013 8:32pm
Tux said..

kiteboy dave said..

I don't watch TT/ACA so I'm not really keen to suffer the loss of dignity involved with actually appearing on one of them


Just ask them to blur your face...last thing you want is Aus Post getting the **** with you...goodbye mail


The only mail I ever get is bills. And some political propoganda at election time. To be honest I'd be better off without the old mailbox.
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
20 Sep 2013 6:31pm
So Australia Post came back with this piece of sheer lunacy:

Hi David

Thanks for your enquiry.

I would like to reassure you that Australia Post do not sell customer details. Your details are forwarded to marketing as part of your redirection when you applied for it. There is a box that you should have ticked to ensure that this did not occur.

I'm happy to get your details removed from this database for you. In order to do that can you please provide the following information. This requested information is in line with our Privacy Guidelines and is a mandatory security check to ensure the person making the enquiry is authorised to do so.

??? Your nine digit Customer Reference Number (CRN)
??? Your old address
??? Your new address
??? Name of the person who lodged the application
??? Full names of all addressees covered by the service
??? Phone number (as provided on the redirection application)

Once I have this information I will be able to have your details removed from this database.

I???m also very sorry that it has taken us longer than anticipated to get back to you. We are currently experiencing higher than normal online enquiries, and are working hard to make sure that we get back to our customers as soon as possible.

Kind regards

Vicki L | Digital Sales and Service | Australia Post
Online Services Consultant

GPO Box 9911 In Your Capital City
WA71
WA71
WA
1382 posts
WA, 1382 posts
20 Sep 2013 4:34pm
^ That just screams "we dont care"
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
20 Sep 2013 6:35pm

I would like to reassure you that Australia Post do not sell customer details. Your details are forwarded to marketing ....

Just replay that sentence a few times.

AP do not sell customer details.
next sentence
your details are forwarded to marketing (and they sell them)


There is a box that you should have ticked to ensure that this did not occur.

My fault, thanks lady. And apparently it is/was Opt-Out.
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
20 Sep 2013 6:36pm
My response:



Hi VickyL,

By the sound of your response, you sell users details on an Opt-Out system, is that correct? I needed to have actively ticked a box to opt out? Please clarify if that
a/ was the system a few years ago
b/ is the system Australia Post uses currently.
I would have never ticked an Opt-in check box, so I'm fairly sure an easy-to-miss Opt-out box was hidden in the fine print somewhere.

Referring to this section of your response:
I'm happy to get your details removed from this database for you. In order to do that can you please provide the following information. This requested information is in line with our Privacy Guidelines and is a mandatory security check to ensure the person making the enquiry is authorised to do so.

??? Your nine digit Customer Reference Number (CRN)
??? Your old address
??? Your new address
??? Name of the person who lodged the application
??? Full names of all addressees covered by the service
??? Phone number (as provided on the redirection application)

Once I have this information I will be able to have your details removed from this database.


Please note that this is entirely unacceptable.

I have used mail redirection services a number of times previously, approximately 3, 6 and 9 years ago.

How on earth do you expect me to provide details like a CRN from a form I filled in 9 years and 3 houses ago? That is utterly ridiculous. I can't even remember which moves I used your service for, and some of the addresses involved.

Common sense would dictate that this is not subject to privacy laws - have you ever heard of someone being maliciously removed from a spam marketing list? I'm sure that would really ruin their day.

This seems to me that you're putting unneccesary hurdles in place simply to make it difficult to get off your marketing database.
I have *never* had this kind of imposition put on me to get off a database - and that includes the companies that you sold my details to against my wishes.

Please reconsider your position while I research mine. I will be happy to take this far and wide, as the sheer idiotic bureaucracy involved will ensure that the story has legs.

Thanks
David.
Skid
Skid
QLD
1499 posts
QLD, 1499 posts
20 Sep 2013 9:50pm
^^ Love your work Kiteboy Dave!

Thanks for sharing this. Please keep posting on the progress.
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