Volkswagen’s diesel scandal

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> 10 years ago

Shooting the breeze.

d1

304 posts

WA, 304 posts

9 Oct 2015 8:47am

vosadrian said..
Are you serious D1.... Now I am unethical?

If you read my post you will see no references to you. All I'm saying is that by choosing to screw the environment for the sake of deceptively meeting some test KPIs, VWs "engineers" are in breach of their own code of ethics.

vosadrian said..
I do not know the details of whether VW actually met their requirement. Was the requirement that they pass the test, or was it more than that?

The EPA legislation has very clear wording on the banned use of "Defeat Devices". Since VW passed the test by means of a "Defeat Device", they breached the law and technically didn't meet the requirement. What's worse is that they back-pedalled for one year until EPA eventually disassembled their software and demonstrated the "Defeat" routine.

vosadrian said..
Either way, other than the legalistic argument, there is zero real world effect of this deception (except may a positive one).

No. All estimates point to a few hundred deaths per year that could have been avoided if VW were honest.

vosadrian said..
If a few consumers bought a polluting VW instead of a regulation meeting Ford F150 because of the increased economy and performance of the VW due to the increased emissions output, then the worlds air is in a better place.

This is a classic logical fallacy called "False Dichotomy". The consumer that didn't buy VW could have bought a Mazda Skyactiv instead of a F150.

vosadrian

NSW

465 posts

vosadrian

NSW, 465 posts

9 Oct 2015 2:37pm

I'm not that convinced on the few hundred deaths per year.... but I am not suggesting that I am going to improve the calculations myself. I just suspect a few hundred deaths makes a better story for the media to grab hold of. I am pretty sure if total deaths from all vehicles due to this emission was known and then the total output of the VWs compared to that of all vehicles combined as a percentage (including trucks etc.) that number of deaths will be very small. If it is not, then there must be a LOT of people dying from this. Also, I hear figures of 40X the limit. I am pretty sure these cars are not constantly putting out 40X the limit. Probably under a specific operating condition that represents a very small % of real use they may do this, and the average is much less. Pretty sure the calculations done would not reflect this.

So do you think that the F150 (on a per vehicle basis) is killing more people than deceptive VWs. Are the regulations responsible if they allow this?

As you can see, I have not got the time or inclination to go and work out the real story myself and I assume you do not either. What I do have is a fair bit of scepticism relating to the media, and the way countries will protect their local industries by stacking the deck to suit them. I have seen the ways car manufacturers have used to pass emissions tests in the past that allow tests to be passed even though actual emissions were not reduced. I agree that legalisticly VW have been more deceptive than I have seen before, but I've stated my opinion on the "quality" of the regulations and the legal system in general. I also know that 10+ years ago every diesel car put out far more emissions so it is not like the world has suddenly turned into a death trap because of this.

For me this is about the irony of giving the stamp of approval to huge diesel trucks that continue to be the most popular vehicle sold in the US while making a big deal about this VW issue. I'm pretty sure which is causing more environmental problems.

goggo

378 posts

goggo

378 posts

9 Oct 2015 2:00pm

These small diesel engines are capable of returning 5-6L per 100km, I haven't checked but if these cars weren't available and everyone that now owns one was driving around in a car of 8-10L per 100km wouldn't this actually be worse for he environment?

I have a fiat diesel and I'm pretty sure the Italians would be on to the same sort of scam.

Another way to beat emissions laws would be to do an ECU update at the first service, just saying not encouraging.

Mother nature will fix things her way, like putting on another ice age to put us in our place.

Aloha

Paul

VB MAN

1156 posts

VB MAN

1156 posts

9 Oct 2015 2:20pm

Hey y'all, how bout a bit of truck racin to liten up the atmosphere a little huh ?

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