I have been thinking about the rise in prices. On the one hand higher prices for petrol and diesel is good as it will reduce our consumption of what appears to be a finite resource. While I am not totally convinced that climate change is man made or that its consequences is bad, if you do then surely higher fuel prices is a good thing.

On the other hand higher fuel prices hits people hard, but not all people equally hard. In my case I walk to work and my wife catches the train to work. Its less than a 5 minute walk for her to get to the station. So we generally drive our van very little, just to friends places, the beach and church. We do not need to commute for which I am very thankful. However my parents live on a farm and need to drive to get anywhere. I too previously drove about 600kms a week in my work so petrol was a large cost.

Now we get Brenden Nelson saying the government should cut the fuel excise to help Australians. This would not help me much but would help others a great deal.

Thinking about LPG, from what I understand Australia is self sufficient with LPG and we export it to China for about one cent a litre. If thats the case then it would be good for Australia to stop using imported fuels and start using LPG as a substitute. The first step was already put in place through the LPG subsidy started by the previous Federal government. Is that subsisdy going to continue with the new government?

What would be the effect of mandating that all new vehicles sold in Australia be able to use LPG? Petrol vehicles can use LPG as a fuel source with some modifications. Diesels motors can use LPG too, but not 100%. Diesels are happy to use around 20% of LPG in their combustion process.

Forcing the use of LPG in vehicle engines could do much to improve our economy as more Australians would buy Australian cars. If BMW or Peurgeot could not make an LPG car for Australia then too bad.

I think do more involving little motorbikes. Get the media to portray them as convenient and practical, instead of a quick ticket to the grave. Not 1000cc sports ones. But little 250's would be enough for most people to commute. It would reduce congestion, and parking problems. (2-3 bikes per car bay). We (australia) should create our own bike company. Making bulk, dirt cheap, reliable bikes.
The smaller capacity ones would use naff all fuel.
Its amazing, during peak hour traffic, nearly every single car has only one person in.
Maybe encouraging car pooling as well. Having 3 passengers (a full car basically), would quarter your fuel costs if its split evenly. Would get 3 cars off the road, and make the drive less of a bore for everyone, as you can have a chat to and from work.
Also, make public transport "free". Add a small tax, maybe 50-100 bucks for the year, that everyone pays, and then you can travel all you want, through any zone, on any of the trains/buses/ferries.
Again, it would greatly reduce traffic jams, less petrol would be used, and I think it would make the commute to work safer. ie , less idiots to crash ino driving.
Thats all I got at the moment.

SIMPLE..... on the mark moby...STOP selling gas to asia for a pittance and keep IT ALL for AUSSIES....... and sell it to us for the same price that u give it away to the japs for.

we dont need oil.


F M D...when there is an energy CRISIS in a few yrs , and all stocks are depleated............................................. i wont be able to go on my windsurf trips up north or it will take me 2 months to get there on my solar powered tri-cycle

My brother has a Mazda Metro 121 1998 model which is manual and has a 1.3 liter engine. it runs on next to nothing and with the way fuel prices are at the moment and in the future I am going to drive that and it will save me a lot of money. One of my mates has a farm on Yorke Peninsular in South Australia and during the holidays they bought 4000 liters of diesel at $1.63 a liter and get next to nothing in terms of rebate I think around 4c a liter so they are buying around 6000 dollars worth of fuel so they can plant there crops and make food for Asia. As far as I know not a lot of Australian produced grain actually goes into our food. please correct me if I am wrong on that point. With rising inflation and house prices I think it will be near to impossible to own a farm that will make some money as the land now is around 1 million plus dollars to by and when I am ready to buy the land will be a lot more. one other thing I have seen in the news a lot is carbon trading which is wear people plant trees to offset their carbon emissions. On Kangaroo Island there has been a lot of big companies by land to plant trees on to offset there emissions and a lot of these companies are from Asia.

Cheers Pittsy

1. Remove GST from Fuel.
2. State Governments should not be allowed to to Tax Fuel.
3. Prices should be set by the Government, So we stop getting ripped of by the oil
companies.

unless we adopt 3. whatever KR might do, the petrol companies will devour any price reduction in a week!

DavMen said...

1. Remove GST from Fuel.
2. State Governments should not be allowed to to Tax Fuel.
3. Prices should be set by the Government, So we stop getting ripped of by the oil
companies.

unless we adopt 3. whatever KR might do, the petrol companies will devour any price reduction in a week!

Price controls by government usually end up costing us more than the "free" market. If Australia went to an LPG or other energy source base for its transport needs then we would remove our dependency on Caltex and co.

Notice how all the big oil companies are either American or European and they are amongst the richest corporations in the world? The government of Australia is not big enough to fight them. To me it makes sense that we use a fuel source which is plentiful in Australia. Is there anything I am missing here?

It is probably impractical for motorbikes and some other vehicles to use LPG. However most vehicles sold could be modified to use LPG and if the foreign car company (including Holden and Ford), say their model can't be modified to run on LPG, then too bad, they can't sell it in Australia.

There would be a gradual process to shift our transportation to LPG fuel, maybe over 5 years. Does anyone have any idea how much LPG we have in Australia and how long it would last based on projected use?

Mobydisc said...

DavMen said...

1. Remove GST from Fuel.
2. State Governments should not be allowed to to Tax Fuel.
3. Prices should be set by the Government, So we stop getting ripped of by the oil
companies.

unless we adopt 3. whatever KR might do, the petrol companies will devour any price reduction in a week!

Price controls by government usually end up costing us more than the "free" market. If Australia went to an LPG or other energy source base for its transport needs then we would remove our dependency on Caltex and co.

This proves we can't really expect the government, at the time to have any real effect.

Further more, the big oil companies would only buy up the LG companies anyway (if they already don't have thier finger in there somewhere) if they looked like threatening their Kingdom. Remeber they are an outlet for the LG stuff anyway.

Besides I'm not convinced LG is such a 'huge' saving anyway (at the moment).



We're at the multinational's mercy - its the same problem in the US as far as fuel costs and the oil companies scewing the people goes. Remeber they (Caltex etc.)are in a no loss situation as far as rising barel costs goes, it means nothing to them(who knows they maybe even driving it). Its a bigger problem than any one country's government.

So stop blaming the PM (whoever it may be).

Sorry can't see how Australia reducing consumption or increasing supply is going to change the world oil price. Nor can I see how any Australian Government (whom ever it may be) can change the world oil price either.
Now that KR is PM, he has probably relaised how insignificant an Australin PM is to these Oil companies. Hi biggest mistake is he actually thought he could make a difference.

harrytesties said...

egypt..30 cents a litre, indonesia... 50 cents a litre... oil is abiotic, the screws are beginning to tighten... www.zeitgeistmovie.com

The Indonesians also carry 2 or 3 people on 110cc motorbike.
Now that's economical

When the liberal leader started spouting this rubbish about reducing fuel prices, didn't Costello say something along the lines of "No, that'll never work, don't be ridiculous"?

So why did labour then pick up that policy?

Labour still haven't figured out that it's them that are in power now, they don't have to claw votes back on every perceived issue.

I just received this email and I agree.

Government Fuel Scam

For this government AND previous. Stop the fuel scam!
Don't talk about the Singapore fuel price.
Don't say you cannot do anything, as your tax coffers
get a steady increase from this misery.

Tell me about the increased TAX revenue that comes with every
increase in fuel, both state and federal.
Reducing the excise (percentage tax) on a fuel price gone mad is NOT a
cut.
You still get MORE with every fuel increase. It's like stores save SAVE to
buy
useless things at reduced price.

I say CAP the DOLLAR tax cost, say at Dec 2007 average fuel price. Cap the
tax components (both GST and Excise at that dollar value!).
If you have to increase it at all, only CPI increase would
be somewhat moral. Stop Singapore tax percentage increases, with or
without percentage "cut".

Otherwise, why not CPI increase the age pension based on the fuel price as
well??
To make matters worse, the tax scam (by increasing the total price on
fuel)
also fuels INFLATION. Has Mr Rudd heard about the inflation?
Because it increases INFLATION, we end up getting higher mortgage rates
and overall cost of living as WELL. We already have GST special treatment
of essential groceries.
IT'S TIME FOR FUEL to have a tax re-think.

When will media and polititians start using the right termonology!
Don't talk about a cut, when it's accellerating,
talk about a cap an "INCREASE STOP"!
Get real. What happened to Fair GO???

Horse and cart. It's the way of the future.

OR

Dig up the roads, create channels and windsurf to work.

moon waxing said...

Totally agree with getfunky. Why do people have to drive around in massive inefficient lumps of mental not just the off road vehicles also the Commodore and Falcon pieces of sh!t with 3.0 and 4.0 litre engines.

In Europe a 2.0 car is considered a large engine. They still manage to tow caravans or sales persons spend all day out on the road.

Sure increased oil prices will affect everyone even if you don't own a motor vehicle but for those that do own one some tough decisions concerning the fuel guzzling, polluting, pride and joys will have to be made.

say everyone got a car that used half as much fuel, the total amount used in aus would not drop by 78/2%, the drop would more likely be 27% or there about as this is for cars, trucks and buses use way more fuel and hence make the cars less of an effect. This is for vehicles and doesn't include huge users such as mining/shipping and electricity generation. Other transport such as ferries and boats also would drive this down significantly. Each cereal farmer uses at least 5L per H.A. and at ~5000H.A. per farm this is significant so we cannot forget them. this means that halving your fuel usage [not even possible as your commodore uses say 11L/100, you would need a hell small car for that and then those really small cars themselves cannot get much better.
down sizing your car is therefore a fairly futile effort and only saves you some $$ each year. now the more dramatic consequence of this is that almost everything is effected by the rise in fuel cost and hence the taxations on it are causing inflation.


www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/ProductsbyReleaseDate/06010F4E7D145276CA257394000EC89A?OpenDocument

cheap fuel and wind here
just dont mention the words "carbon footprint"

I think this is where some of your petty money went

harrytesties said...

best i've seen is five, with shopping on end of poles across the middle two guys shoulders, and a little kid holding on for dear life between the riders feet in the step through...

Yep seen similar in India.
Vespa type Scooter.
10ish yo boy standing in the front between his dads legs holding onto the handle bars. Then a teenage daughter sandwiched between the Dad and mother, The mother sitting side saddle craddling an infant in her arms. No one amazed except for me!
No shopping on the end of poles though.

Jman said...

We need to get out of this bull#### globel econemy, we need to start making products back in Australia, we need to stop selling all our resourses to the highest bidder who gives a s##t if they can't afford a new plasma every 2 years.

Thats basically the policy of the North Koreans. Australia could be self sufficient. However our standard of living would be quite low and our lifestyle would have to be similar to what took place in the Soviet Union.

I do not advocate Australia withdrawing from the internation economy. So much of our national wealth is dependent upon trade. However it is wrong to base our livelyhood on a substance which is largely imported when there is a locally available product which can be a substitute.

The LPG policy enacted by the coalition was a step in the right direction.