log man said...
Mark , don't try and apologize for your friend, that's what always happens, you come out with some bigoted rant and then retreat with crap like "all he's saying is " and "just saying",

Mark never has apologised for me. Usually it is quite the opposite. Re being friends. Neither of us would know the other from a bar of soap except for our posts on the forum.

So Cisco thinks towing a refugee boat back out to sea is a good way to solve a refugee problem........

I don't think and did not say any such thing. What I did say was that the Thais have sent a very strong message to the people smugglers and refugees by doing that.

I believe Australia needs to send a very strong message to them also, to the effect "If you come here illegally, your claim to refugee status will not be recognised, the only processing that will happen will be to accertain the last port from which you departed for Australia and to which you will be returned forthwith."

Elroy Jetson said...
It's obvious. The Climatologists are the ones that are currently taking it over.

I'll go with that one.

How about having a government that would first look after the taxpayer's welfare?? That should be the top priority, ask the people on the pension having to fork out another $ 500-00 a year for the rent of their homeswest tenancies, the money we are blowing on the illegal would go a long way with our poorest people??!! The red witch of Canberra would not have to raise a new tax and we could look after all the Australian floods victims as well! And yes if there is some money left, by all mean give it to poor countries (no cash... food, medical supplies etc...) And get rid of that arrogant chair sniffing bras pinching of an excuse for a Housing minister!

How are refugees illegal?

So refugees seeking asylum are illegal?

What about the 50,000 visa overstayers that come in by plane?

Surely this semi legal form of illegal staying poses a huge threat to national security. Refugees and/or Asylum seekers get locked up screened etc sometimes for years. Visa overstayers are more than welcome.

Now if i was a terrorist then i would use my 'cell' to create me a passport, organise a visa and pop on over. I certianly would not risk life and limb of myself and my family to come through three different countries to get here on a leaky boat.

I think the huge focus on boat people is wrong. 90% of these people are found to be genuine Asylum seekers and are released into the community after a 'period' However this 'invasion' plays on the public's fears and prejudices.
It is also note worthy that Australia offers a total of 13,750 places for people seeking asylum.

poor relative said...

So refugees seeking asylum are illegal?

Semantics.

They arrive here by illegal means, commit illegal acts when here and then claim they are refugees.

The biggest volume people smuggler in Indonesia made it to Australia under an assumption of refugee status and then went back to Indonesia to set up his people smuggling business.

If you have so much sympathy for the illegal immigrants pr, maybe you should go to Indon and set up your own people smuggling business.

From all reports there is huge money to made doing it.

poor relative said...

So refugees seeking asylum are illegal?

According to the UN they are if they do not claim asylum in the first possible country they reach, for which their claim for asylum would be reasonably considered.

Thus striving to get to Australia to claim asylum as opposed to asking for asylum in say, for example, Thailand through which you travelled - because you like the sound of Oz more than you like the sound of Thailand makes your claim in Oz tecnhincally illegal, although the UN would require Australia to consider the request.

North Africans travelling through Europe to wait to claim asylum when they get to Dover are in the same boat (except the boat is usally a cross channel ferry not a leaky old fishing boat). They should claim at southern French or Spanish or Italian ports into which they first arrive.

An Iraqi kurd escaping east and claiming in say Iran may well be considered unreasonable hence would would be permitted to claim in the next place you reached.

Asylum is about protection from persecution, not about going somewhere to improve your quality of life - that is called immigration, and every single person in the world is entitled to apply for immigration to Australia.

I am not supporting or criticising Australian immigration policy so don't shout at me , just pointing out the technical differences between asylum and immigration.

I guess, as Japie said earlier this topic just goes round and round.

Its a shame really that anyone has to seek asylum from their homelands.

Personally I try not to judge anyone on their religion sex language etc etc i prefer to see people as people.
To tar all muslims with the same brush as being terrorists and fundamentalists is wrong.

I also don't think the majority of Muslims give a sh!t whether your a muslim or not and like you and me i think the majority just want to get on with what they get on with doing what they do free from persecution.

SomeOtherGuy said...
Who pointed a knife in your gut? Did you report them to the cops? Like I said, I work with lots of muslims. Don't know any bad ones. The only one I see not tolerating is you.

Another one who misses or just refuses to see the point.

Does having Muslim friends qualify you with some special knowlege or make you some sort of saint.

I have Muslim, Hindu and Taoist friends. Big deal. They are just other people who are just as strong or fragile as I am.

You seem to be OneOtherGuy who assumes that because some other guy uses a word it is therefore descriptive of that other guy's thinking or psyche.

Carantoc said...

poor relative said...

So refugees seeking asylum are illegal?

According to the UN they are if they do not claim asylum in the first possible country they reach, for which their claim for asylum would be reasonably considered.

Thus striving to get to Australia to claim asylum as opposed to asking for asylum in say, for example, Thailand through which you travelled - because you like the sound of Oz more than you like the sound of Thailand makes your claim in Oz tecnhincally illegal, although the UN would require Australia to consider the request.

North Africans travelling through Europe to wait to claim asylum when they get to Dover are in the same boat (except the boat is usally a cross channel ferry not a leaky old fishing boat). They should claim at southern French or Spanish or Italian ports into which they first arrive.

An Iraqi kurd escaping east and claiming in say Iran may well be considered unreasonable hence would would be permitted to claim in the next place you reached.

Asylum is about protection from persecution, not about going somewhere to improve your quality of life - that is called immigration, and every single person in the world is entitled to apply for immigration to Australia.

I am not supporting or criticising Australian immigration policy so don't shout at me , just pointing out the technical differences between asylum and immigration.

Thanks for that Carantoc. Worth repeating so that the multiculturalists get to know the differences.

The thing about this whole "debate" is we can't agree on basic common sense facts. 1. it is not illegal to be a refugee. 2. The vast ,vast, overwhelming majority of Muslims are OK, some, a very small number are evil ****ers but we shouldn't let that cower us into a hateful mindset. 3. The numbers of refugees arriving in Australia is very small - we are not being " swamped" or "overrun". 4 . It is not relevant to characterize a group of people by one event.eg "my next doors neighbours sister was eaten by Muslims".5. They DO NOT all throw away their official papers ( many have no papers after leaving in a REAL hurry. Passports are not a common piece of paperwork in many parts of the world) 6. What the hell does it matter if people turn up who are obviously not refugees. The department will check who these people are and if they are found to be frauds then they don't get entry. 7. Terrorists are not going to enter our country posing as refugees. 8. I can't think of any more!

log man said...

The thing about this whole "debate" is we can't agree on basic common sense facts. 1. it is not illegal to be a refugee. 2. The vast ,vast, overwhelming majority of Muslims are OK, some, a very small number are evil ****ers but we shouldn't let that cower us into a hateful mindset. 3. The numbers of refugees arriving in Australia is very small - we are not being " swamped" or "overrun". 4 . It is not relevant to characterize a group of people by one event.eg "my next doors neighbours sister was eaten by Muslims".5. They DO NOT all throw away their official papers ( many have no papers after leaving in a REAL hurry. Passports are not a common piece of paperwork in many parts of the world) 6. What the hell does it matter if people turn up who are obviously not refugees. The department will check who these people are and if they are found to be frauds then they don't get entry. 7. Terrorists are not going to enter our country posing as refugees. 8. I can't think of any more!

I'd go with that sounds reasonable to me.
I would add

8. Its not going to stop and given the world today there will probably be more coming to our shores.

poor relative said...

So refugees seeking asylum are illegal?

What about the 50,000 visa overstayers that come in by plane?

Surely this semi legal form of illegal staying poses a huge threat to national security. Refugees and/or Asylum seekers get locked up screened etc sometimes for years. Visa overstayers are more than welcome.

Now if i was a terrorist then i would use my 'cell' to create me a passport, organise a visa and pop on over. I certianly would not risk life and limb of myself and my family to come through three different countries to get here on a leaky boat.

I think the huge focus on boat people is wrong. 90% of these people are found to be genuine Asylum seekers and are released into the community after a 'period' However this 'invasion' plays on the public's fears and prejudices.
It is also note worthy that Australia offers a total of 13,750 places for people seeking asylum.

Maybe if we weren't spending so much time, money and effort in Chritmas Island, Darwin, Northam etc, keeping these unthankful illegals and the hundreds, maybe thousands, of people inside and outside of Oz making a career in the "refugee" business we could use those resources to track the 50000 who are also here illegally and ship them back. It doesn't matter how you get here, if it's illegally, by boat, plane, canoe or swimming, it is illegal and you deserve to be deported!!!!

cisco said...

Does having Muslim friends qualify you with some special knowlege or make you some sort of saint.

cisco said...

If you try to represent another's views, you have misrepresented them because you don't know what they are until they state them.

You should try some of your own medicine there cisco. You are the one who is crapping on about changing Australian laws and policies based on the bad experience of some neighbour of yours in Algiers of all places!

Fer chrissake! Algiers?? Are you fer real?

I simply pointed out that I know lots of muslims in Australia and none of them ever was so much as rude to me. I never claimed anything - you did.

I'll accept your apology any time now.

doggie said...

(.(.)