pweedas. I don't think you are getting what asylum seeking is.. Its not immigration.
Things we do at this end don't encourage asylum seeking. Having you and your family exposed to life threatening situations such as war, famine and civil unrest encourages asylum seeking. What is wrong with providing basic human rights to those that need it??

pweedas said...

You wouldn't do that in your own house. You wouldn't just offer accommodation to anyone who rocked up on your doorstep.
You would select those who you decide are compatible with your way of living.
Australia is our collective house in effect. We should apply the same principle.

Being watching this thread with zero-mild interest, was not going to comment (as it doesn't affect me directly - SE coast of Aus), but wtf is with that comment?

If someone turned up on my doorstep in as much need as these asylum seekers do...sorry, but I'd let them in. I wouldn't make sure they barrack for the same AFL team or prefer to watch the same TV shows as me...sorry, my small rant!

Sailhack said...

pweedas said...

You wouldn't do that in your own house. You wouldn't just offer accommodation to anyone who rocked up on your doorstep.
You would select those who you decide are compatible with your way of living.
Australia is our collective house in effect. We should apply the same principle.

Being watching this thread with zero-mild interest, was not going to comment (as it doesn't affect me directly - SE coast of Aus), but wtf is with that comment?

If someone turned up on my doorstep in as much need as these asylum seekers do...sorry, but I'd let them in. I wouldn't make sure they barrack for the same AFL team or prefer to watch the same TV shows as me...sorry, my small rant!

That's highly commendable.
But you might change your mind when they decide to stay forever, and bring in their aunts and uncles and brothers and sisters and long lost cousins and etc etc.
You might then find that you are the the odd man out in your own house and they are asking you to live as they do.

They would never do that of course. Or would they?
As I posted earlier, England went down exactly that path 30 years ago. They are similar people to us, similar culture and values. They are paying for it now.
If they finally get it sorted out tyhen perhaps we can follow them but at the moment their kindness and compassion is biting them in the bum.

Your comment that you are watching it with zero-mild interest is telling.
Most of our population is doing the same. It's that laid back "she'll be right" ozzie culture that I mentioned earlier. It is just that which is allowing it to happen.

Perhaps we should pay a bit more attention to articles like this.

Sharia law wanted in England by 40% muslims
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html


Hey! Sharia law. What's wrong with that? Sounds nice. Might even be nice for a girls name. Sharia. Yes it has a nice sound to it.

It might be an idea to look it up just in case it means something not so nice.


www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510867/What-is-sharia-law.html

Hey, you're probably busy. Let me just copy a bit here.

From The Telegraph UK 19 Feb 2006
Sharia law is "the path that must be followed by a Muslim".
It brings together elements from the Koran and the Hadith (a collection of the deeds and words of Mohammed), plus judges' rulings from Islam's first centuries.
It was fixed by about the 10th century, and contains detailed instructions for practically every aspect of life.

In the West, it is most famous for its penal code: the prescribed punishments
for sexual offences, which include stoning;
for theft, which include amputation;
and for apostasy, for which the punishment is death.

Much more important for most Muslims, however, are the parts of sharia that relate to the status of women, to contracts and to family law.

These include provisions that allow men several wives and that enshrine, in law, the inferiority of women.

Women can be divorced merely by their husbands reciting "I divorce you" three times;
their testimony is worth less than that of men;
and they cannot marry a non-Muslim man - although it is permissible for a Muslim man to marry a non-Muslim woman.

It is parts of sharia such as these that come into immediate conflict with Britain's secular law, which is committed to treating all citizens equally. But it is those provisions which Muslim clerics most want to cordon off from any secular influence
****************** end quote


I choose to compare England because they are similar ethnicity to Australia and a similar people "embracing" ? a "multicultural society"
There are numerous other countries with the same problems and none are doing any better.
I will say it again, If you think Australians can handle this better than everyone else, show me some evidence.
So far over my whole lifetime in Australia, I have seen NONE.

So, seeing I just got a serve for my opinion, or lack thereof (not to mention red-thumbed)...what are you guys doing about it all?

Now you guys, (pweedas, jmurray, GD...etc.) are obviously very passionate about this topic, and seem to be fairly knowledgeable in ways of interpreting media comment & using Wikifacts...so I expect that you're doing more than just whinging on a public forum, and are actively seeking methods to stop the flow of asylum seekers, by...

-contacting your local MP?
-writing letters to the PM?
-picketting on the beach at Christmas Island?
-doing anything constructive about it?

...or are you guys just going to be content with putting on a show of knowledge on this topic, until something else more worthy of debate arises & you jump on that bandwagon? If so, you're no better than someone like me...who does nothing about it also, but at least I'm honest about it.

To be perfectly honest...If there was enough wind, I wouldn't even be typing this. I'd have knocked off early, and gone to the beach!

9th April 2010 United Nations states.

People smuggling is ''totally out of control'', with thousands of asylum seekers jostling to get to Australia, according to the senior representative of the United Nations High Commission for Refugees in Indonesia, Manuel Jordao.

The comments come as asylum seekers report the price of a passage to Australia has halved as more human-trafficking syndicates emerge to take advantage of an influx of irregular immigrants. With the knowledge that Australia has now become an easy target.

In an interview with the Herald, Mr Jordao said a ''huge percentage'' of almost 4000 asylum seekers on the UNHCR's books in Indonesia would try to reach Australia by boat rather than wait for resettlement through official channels. Knowing that others have landed on Australian soil and now will be processed into Australia..

Along with those registered with the UNHCR, there are believed to be thousands more Afghans, Pakistanis and Sri Lankans who bypass the UNHCR as they wait for people smugglers to take them to Australia.

pweedas said...

Me too. And guess what? It did and and I did.
By 4pm it came in a bit. By 5pm I was overpowerd on 6m. Sweet!

Now you're getting personal...that's just rubbing it in! (I'm still waiting for wind)

(ps I didn't red thumb ya sailhack in case u think i did.

Nah, I didn't assume you did, but as my post was fairly opinionated, I guess I deserve what I get.

Now where's that feckiny wind?!?

pweedas said...

Sailhack said...
To be perfectly honest...If there was enough wind, I wouldn't even be typing this. I'd have knocked off early, and gone to the beach!

Me too. And guess what? It did and and I did.
By 4pm it came in a bit. By 5pm I was overpowerd on 6m. Sweet!
I feel bettter now. Pull down the barricades. Everyone's welcome.
(ps I didn't red thumb ya sailhack in case u think i did.
cut/paste "Your feedback is greatly appreciated as it allows us the opportunity to address issues that are important to our customers.")

Arhh the magic of good wind. There truly is nothing better than a great session to put everything in perspective.

Realistically though, all or nothing policies will never address anything well. Complicated issues need understanding. And when focussed too much on fear, or protecting ourselves without thought for the rights of others, we greatly limit our likelihood of reaching long lasting solutions. Everyone is always having impact on everyone else... We just need to understand each other really well to figure out how to best work things.

Asylum seeker boat carrying ten arrives
April 10, 2010, 9:22 am



Border Protection Command has successfully intercepted another suspected irregular entry vessel carrying eight passengers and two crew.

This is the 39th asylum seeker boat to be intercepted so far this year and the first since the federal government announced changed procedures for dealing with asylum seekers designed to deter the growing influx of arrivals from Sri Lanka and Afghanistan.

The nationality of those aboard the vessel is unknown at this stage.

Home Affairs Minister Brendan O'Connor said the patrol boat HMAS Maitland, operating under the control of Border Protection Command, intercepted the vessel on Friday evening north northeast of West Island in the Ashmore group.

Initial indications were that eight passengers and two crew were on board the vessel, he said.

"The group will be transferred to Christmas Island where they will undergo security, identity and health checks and their reasons for travel will be established," he said in a statement.

"While their nationality is yet to be confirmed, if these asylum seekers are Sri Lankans or Afghans their claims will not be considered for at least three or six months respectively, under a processing suspension introduced by the government on 9 April 2010."

Second asylum seeker boat intercepted
Today April 10, 2010, 7:52 pm

A boat with 36 asylum seekers and four crew has been intercepted near Ashmore Island in the Indian Ocean.

HMAS Maitland, under the control of Border Protection Command, intercepted the vessel about 5pm (AEST) on Saturday, a statement from Home Affairs Minister Brendan O'Connor says.

It's the 40th boat intercepted in Australian waters this year, and the second since the government announced changed procedures for dealing with asylum seekers to deter the influx of arrivals from Sri Lanka and Afghanistan.

It follows the arrival of another boat on Friday evening, intercepted near Ashmore Reef carrying eight asylum seekers and two crew.
The latest group, whose nationality is unknown, will be transferred to Christmas Island where they will undergo security, identity and health checks


COme one come all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mortem

From a purely practical point of view; Rudd and Co. have managed to put the country in the worst financial state it has ever been in so how are we going to support these people

Please don't anybody say that they will do the jobs that Australians are too proud or lazy to do.

Rudd changed the rules for refugees to "As soon as you are in the door, turn left and go straight to Centrelink."

The fear of "Muslimisation of the Australian culture" is a small part of the overall problem.

The biggest danger is the country being flodded with low or no skilled people with little cultural sophistication of any brand except that of street survival and begging.

The arrogance of Rudd and his crew is beyond belief and worse than Keating ever was. They just don't care what the voter wants.

Who are those two twit women in the second row on the labor side behind whoever is speaking

Pardon me for quoting myself from a previous post on 5th April when I said;

"For the few small brownie points they scored in making the system a bit softer, they will now be unpopular with everybody when they finally have to make some unpopular decision to fix the situation again.
Really makes me wonder sometimes. "

I copped a few more red thumbs for that one which surprised me a bit because I thought I was only stating the obvious.

I wasn't expecting step two in the process quite so soon, but less than a week later we now have the headline from "The Australian"


www.theaustralian.com.au/nocookies?a=A.flavipes

Which says in part;
AUSTRALIA has announced it has stopped processing asylum applications from Afghans and Sri Lankans as it cracks down on people-smuggling.
"The decision has been made in the light of changing circumstances in both Afghanistan and Sri Lanka," Immigration Minister Chris Evans said today.
The announcement came shortly after the government revealed the interception of a boat, carrying 70 asylum seekers, near Christmas Island last night.
It was the 38th boat to arrive in Australian waters this year.
The new measures also follow the concerns of a United Nations official who said governments needed new solutions to deal with "out of control" people smuggling as thousands of asylum-seekers try to reach Australia via Indonesia."
*********** end quote

oOOOOhhhh What a surprise! Whoever would have thought that?

Next will come the endless arguments over whether it is legal or not,
Discriminatory or not,
Compassionate or not,
Racist or not,
Australian or not,
Harsh or not,
etc etc.
And each step of the way the government will cop flack and lose support.

On the face of it, these new measures are discriminatory on a racial basis so they should nto be legal.
The previous arrangement was NOT discriminatory as it applied equally to all.

When it's all over and they add up their brownie points, plus and minus, the end result is sure to be in the negative.
And everyone knows, that's what governs almost every decision in politics.

Perhaps now would be a good time for all the "red thumbers" to put up a few alternatives.
I'm sure if you come up with something half decent, Kev would be eternally grateful.
Well, maybe not eternally, but until the next election at least.

You could post them up here first if you like so we can do a critical analysis on them before you pass them on to Kev.
That way you can be sure you will only be passing on the best ideas.

Come on. Don't be shy now.

Is anyone actually questioning whether Afghan arrivals or Tamils from Sri Lanka are genuine refugees? Seriously??

I have noticed an enourmous amount of Jewish holocaust docos etc appearing on TV, movies and radio in the last couple of years. I find it hard to understand how there can be so much sympathy for history compared to the seemingly ignorant bliss in turning our backs on people fleeing genocide occuring today.

And we cynically laugh at people who say they didn't know the holocaust was happening.

maxm said...
Immigration is a completely different topic to asylum seeking (a concept that seemingly will never penetrate the skulls of some here).

This particular scull is very much aware of that concept.

"Asylum seekers" are a subset of the total immigration quota.
That is, the TOTAL number of all immigration arrivals INCLUDING boat people is capped at an annual quota. (We are that smart at least.)

For every person that arrives uninvited by any means whatsover, one person gets kicked off the list at the other end.
That person was probably in just as dire circumstances but did the right thing and had their application processed through the right channels.
The person who arrives by boat has usually mysteriously "lost" all their identification papers.
Which is a bit strange because to get out of Afghanistan or SriLanka, most have to get on a plane to fly out.
You need papers to do that.
You can't just hop on an international flight with a bus ticket.
The leaky boats do not leave Afghanistan or SriLanka. They leave Indonesia.

Without identification papers their applications take a very much longer time to process and the determination as to whether they are legitimate refugees or not is seriously compromised.
Form any perspective, people arriving uninvited and unannounced in leaky boats is NOT an acceptable way to conduct immigration. Certainly not in the numbers that are happening now.
So the quetion is, do you want to establish boat traffic as an accepted means of arrival or not?
If yes, then is that fair to all the others who do the right thing?
If not, how do you propose to stop it or regulate it.

Insert answers below.

Pweedas you're on a roll. One can never go too far wrong by counting on the worst of people. They never fail to disappoint.