Aus06 said..

I'll stay out of the 'Love v Ado' debate as much as I can here...

I've always loved a holden v8, especially a wagon. But to me, good design should always show restraint. It's about knowing when to stop. I love the holden sport wagon and a few years ago very nearly bought one. I loved the kw/nm numbers of the SSV, then the Clubsport R8 was even more appealing, but what turned me off were the fkn ugly badges on the back of the R8 that completely detracted from an otherwise great looking car.

Same with the Holden ute. A total beast, but a pretty ugly rear end. I guess a muscle car needs to look beefy etc, but it also needs to look appealing from all angles for the money spent.

I'm more of a 'wolf in sheep's clothing' type, where I want great performance that does not attract unwanted attention, and doesn't make me look like a cashed up bogan too.

My sentiments also. This is where Italians and Germans excel for example (not the only example): Knowing when to stop adding bits. The Alfa 159 is I think a sedan masterpiece in this sense. So many copycats - not one comes even close - even it's replacement the Giulia looks crass in comparison. The 159 oozed understated sheer brilliance and style. Guigiaro concept was 2005 I think and took strong front end cues from the Guigiaro Brera concept of 2002.

and the wagon looking a little drab in black but that focusses you on the form.


Some of those suped up utes are crass-looking - especially the US badged models like this. Great base design stuffed up royally. Just like Subaru seems to design everything for the US now - yuck.


Or way over-worked local models like this one. Just stick one more black plastic grille on it an bogans will love it!

Someone told me long ago that a car had to have a few awkward curves to invoke enduring sentiment. i've been watching cars long enough to confirm this.

Here's a few "what the?" designs that we then wondered why anyone would buy but are now treasures.











And here's a few that were considered styling masterpieces in their day but went without trace. (Yes both Mazdas, beware Mazdas, they sell on fresh curves that date quickly)

Rupert said..
This is still my favourite piece of "Aussie Muscle" a genuine V8 "killer".

"Old mate" Bill spent many years at Lang Lang proving grounds - developing the torana's, monaro's, commodore's, reliability testing, ADR testing, R&D, and all sorts of other stuff.

One of his interesting stories was when the engineers handed them thier latest prototype for testing.

It was a supercharged twincam 2 door gemini!

The slide-rule fellas had done the calculations and reckoned the thing should be a real "giant killer"

Well.....it went like stink - but handled like a dog - all it was going to kill was it's driver!

So, while the engineers were away for a congratulatory lunch, they dropped the springs by 1 coil, chopped anti-roll bars out of something parked in the prototype graveyard and bolted them in, tweaked a lot of other bits-n-pieces, spun up bronze bushes to replace some rubber ones and cobbled up a water injection system.

Now it went like stink- and handled like a dream, out accellerating, out braking and handling better than any Holden [and ford, chrysler and anything else] they had seen driven and tested at the proving grounds.
The fellas reckoned that with the performance it gave - and being as light as it was it would be a ripper for the touring car round and more importantly - Bathurst.

As a lark, they they cut a zero off a set of SLR5000 stickers, and plastered them on.[SLR500]

The engineers came back and had a dummy spit when they found thier pride and joy had been molested by mere grubby mechanics, but were rather pale after they were taken for a spin by the boys.

The SLR500 was taken away - and never seen at LangLang again.

stephen

A box with a wooden steering wheel?
Yep, there's some real design work there Cisco.
Never mind

cisco said..

Simple and understated wins every time.

its interesting the difference in perspective.

I always thought the XD/E/F was the beginning of a phase where Ford handed design work to the apprentices. Considering the shapes of the day, the XD/E was an abomination, if it wasn't for the headlights, you could be forgiven for mixing up the front and back, who would have signed off on that?

Engineering wise they were shocking, although the basic drive line was sound, who ever allowed a front main oil seal to be fitted to the inside of the front timing cover should have had his head nailed to a post. Components were built to a price rather than quality, suspension was lucky to last past 40k as was power steering hoses, and who could forget those mixed alloy cooling system fittings that corroded, and needed to be cut out and extracted from the head. The body suffered from early rust helped along by lack of preparation , the door handles needed to be changed as often as the oil filter, the interior was just plastic horrible.

hoop said..
A box with a wooden steering wheel?
Yep, there's some real design work there Cisco.
Never mind

The only person it has to impress is me and it does.

Possibly a foreign concept to your mind.

Edit:- You will never see me driving a Falcon/Fairmont post 1987. I have seen enough of the later models in the wrecking yard to know they are hunks of junk like most other brands. Toyota Corollas up to 1999 are ok.

My 2004 Toyota Avalon is a car I thoroughly recommend.

An absolute pleasure to drive. Smooth as silk to drive,whisper quiet and super,super reliable!

11.2 per 100kms officially---but I drive like an old man and use around 8 litres per 100 kms! (700 Kms from its 61 litre

fuel tank)-- thanks to coasting everywhere!

petermac33 said..
My 2004 Toyota Avalon is a car I thoroughly recommend.

Beautiful engine, same as the Camry, placed into a car that was inspired by a cake of soap.

My in-laws recently downsized to a new Corolla and offered to give us their Avalon with 80,000 on the clock for free to replace our Camry with 380,000 on the clock. It was an easy decision. Can't recall the trade-in they ended up getting on the Avalon.

Actually its closer to 9 litres per 100 Kms not the 8 litres I mentioned.

The owner I bought it from said it gets 500 Kms for a full tank.

I started getting around 550 then I drove it a bit easier and managed around 600.

Its went from there.....neutral at lights....neutral down all hills etc,etc

690 is the new record.

The things you have to do.

MDSXR6T said..
Why on earth do you put it in neutral down hills etc? If you're that concerned about fuel use, buy a newer car. Even my 2015 triton with big mud tyres gets 9l/100kms

You need to do everything you can to save every cent you can when you make great investment decisions like silver... and windsurfing

Nothing on the planet depreciates faster than new windsurfing gear after the first season/use... oh hang on, perhaps condoms and sanitary products

Ian K said..

"will grow on you and become a joy to behold even if it looks like a peanut"

Yeah I used to think that about my Liberty. Silky engine and ride - slabby unbalanced body design.

Then, I bought my Octavia VRS. Perceptions shifted. I can tell you, not every car looks or feels the same from the inside!
I used to be an A-B driver. The manual VRS has brought out the inner wog in me. Why just roll when you can ROCK too! Turn the wheel and the car goes there - no questions asked, no body roll. Overtake? Sure. Drive sedately with the kids? Purr.

So back to the subject, I like that Monaro concept. Maybe it's a little bit more Maserati Ghibli than Jaguar. Either way - it's a good thing.


But not as cool as....



Shame they have a rep for being driven by posers. Spoils the vibe.

cisco said..

hoop said..
A box with a wooden steering wheel?
Yep, there's some real design work there Cisco.
Never mind

The only person it has to impress is me and it does.

Possibly a foreign concept to your mind.

Edit:- You will never see me driving a Falcon/Fairmont post 1987. I have seen enough of the later models in the wrecking yard to know they are hunks of junk like most other brands. Toyota Corollas up to 1999 are ok.

I think I see a defeated EGR system there, and no hot air intake over the exhaust manifold! At least that is what I think is meant to be there.

Maybe that's why a lot of these cars have disappeared from NSW. I used to have a Cortina and every bit of pollution gear had to be intact to pass the annual rego inspections. I guess if you don't need annual inspections then you can run a car for much longer.

Despite Hoop's comment, back when they brought out the EA falcon and the VN commodore, people were a little shocked with how 'swoopy' these cars were, and the fact 'you can't see much of the bonnet when driving'. It shows you that fashion changes a lot over time. The EA and VN look boxy now, and you would worry why anyone would have thought they were unusual when they came out.

dmitri said..

cisco said..



In 1998 Ford went to "The Dark Side" in trying to emulate the Commodore shape and added computers to the mechanicals.

Driving around today it is hard to pick the difference in shape between Falcons and Commodores.
..

You mean first AU ? that was a disaster..

because the shape looked like this

Lol I just posted one of those in the "ugly cars thread"

dmitri said..

cisco said..



In 1998 Ford went to "The Dark Side" in trying to emulate the Commodore shape and added computers to the mechanicals.

Driving around today it is hard to pick the difference in shape between Falcons and Commodores.
..

You mean first AU ? that was a disaster..

because the shape looked like this



That was the year when Ford pulled the pin sponsoring Australian Open.

I heard the US ford outsourced this failed design to Oz just to recover some R & D money

What about the latest model, looks like some genius thought it was a good idea to stick what looks like an Aston Martin DB8 front clip on a tired falcon body.

Rupert said..








Or maybe this one .............

Best looking concept car ever.

Ado Chrysler beat Holden to the punch with the tailgate opening by a few years. They had it on their original 300C wagon. I'm sure there would be earlier examples from other manufacturers who produced 'shooting brake' style wagons but I just wanted to mention it wasn't an innovation by Holden. Sorry Martin if it was your design
Also Ado, I'm sure you know your Skoda is a reclothed Golf, as is the A4. It would be obvious that VW would always give them differences to keep their pricing from cannibalising each other. I'm not sure though that the Skoda being only $5000 cheaper than a GTi is 'half the price' as you spruik.
That said, I would have one any day.