Select to expand quoteAnyBoard said..
Too funny.
I am sure Kai's setup is ideal for Kai's super wide stance and foot straps he uses to control the extreme pitch instability he utilizes to perform the most progressive surf foiling in the world. I didn't realize that's what you were tuning to do. Congrats to you.
Thank you for missing the point entirely, once again. I have no problems winging with the most progressive surf foils like he does, and I don't tune my foil specially to mimic anybody, I just use my own wave windsurfing stance and it works super good for winging, and if the front wing is that close to the mast this is the end result. If even my video clip from our small lake, having tons of fun winging with the same super efficient foil that Kai uses in the clip above does not convince you, then lets leave it at that. You clearly have a really limited view of what winging should be, or perhaps you just don't have winging experience with such foils. Cheers.
Select to expand quoteTaavi said..AnyBoard said..
Too funny.
I am sure Kai's setup is ideal for Kai's super wide stance and foot straps he uses to control the extreme pitch instability he utilizes to perform the most progressive surf foiling in the world. I didn't realize that's what you were tuning to do. Congrats to you.
Thank you for missing the point entirely, once again. I have no problems winging with the most progressive surf foils like he does, and I don't tune my foil specially to mimic anybody, I just use my own wave windsurfing stance and it works super good for winging, and if the front wing is that close to the mast this is the end result. If even my video clip from our small lake, having tons of fun winging with the same super efficient foil that Kai uses in the clip above does not convince you, then let's told leave it at that. You clearly have a really limited view of what winging should be, or perhaps you just don't have winging experience with such foils. Cheers.
I have some observations about where the best seem to be heading and how there setups seem to be changing. I said most not all. I also said not ideal I didn't say unridable. It's like you didn't read my posts or comprehend.
This thread was not supposed to be all about you. Remember, Armstrong shimming.
I
Select to expand quoteAnyBoard said..Taavi said..AnyBoard said..
Too funny.
I am sure Kai's setup is ideal for Kai's super wide stance and foot straps he uses to control the extreme pitch instability he utilizes to perform the most progressive surf foiling in the world. I didn't realize that's what you were tuning to do. Congrats to you.
Thank you for missing the point entirely, once again. I have no problems winging with the most progressive surf foils like he does, and I don't tune my foil specially to mimic anybody, I just use my own wave windsurfing stance and it works super good for winging, and if the front wing is that close to the mast this is the end result. If even my video clip from our small lake, having tons of fun winging with the same super efficient foil that Kai uses in the clip above does not convince you, then let's told leave it at that. You clearly have a really limited view of what winging should be, or perhaps you just don't have winging experience with such foils. Cheers.
I have some observations about where the best seem to be heading and how there setups seem to be changing. I said most not all. I also said not ideal I didn't say unridable. It's like you didn't read my posts or comprehend.
This thread was not supposed to be all about you. Remember, Armstrong shimming.
I
OMG, I only commented because you said you "have no idea why a winger would do this", and I gave you a couple of different examples why. It has nothing to do with me, or my riding, some fuselages are simply designed this way that when used for winging they may end up having a back foot behind the mast, and despite such fuselages are more often used for kiting or for prone, there are still perfectly valid reasons for using these for winging too.
I thought that if you did not have the idea until now, then perhaps my examples would help you to see the reason why these are perfectly good for winging. It was never about me, and all about shimming.
For example, you *could* shim the following setup such a way that the back foot would end up on top of the mast, but that would completely ruin the high speed range of this setup.
www.instagram.com/p/CoZkYDjoLo4/
www.instagram.com/p/CmHacthIopM/
Select to expand quoteAnyBoard said..Taavi said..AnyBoard said..
Your back strap is not in an ideal position in my experience and opinion to control the foil in the most demanding circumstances. It suggests you need more torque in your setup as it seems your needing to lean back to fly. Each to their own i guess.
Sorry, but you missed my point entirely. Where the mast connects to the fuselage also dictates where the mast should be connected to the board. The fuselage designs are different. If the mast is further away from the front wing (the fuselage on the left) it automatically means the mast would need to be connected further back to the board. Different brands have had different ideas over the time where the mast should be connected (onto the fuselage). I did not say anything about which way is better.
Here is an explanation by one brand why they have fuselages that have the mast placed at different distances from the front wing.
It's so baffling to me how people make assumptions and talk about where the mast connects to the board, without looking at the whole setup. Only by looking at everything you can understand why with certain setups you need to place the mast more forward than with others.
The discussion was never about the position of the foil on the board as the position doesn't really mean much other than when the board is still planning. This is important but not being discussed by me.
I covered the distance from the front foil to the mast in the first line of my reply. That is the point. I was talking about the whole setup and the turning moment it creates and how it results in where the back foot ends up in relation to the mast,. Note this is while already foiling being discussed here. The back foot is suggestive of where the riders centre of mass needs to be control the height of the foil but height control is relative easy to control with the back foot too far back or forward even. . It is controlling yaw and roll while controlling height that gets demanding on the rider and this is where it helps in my opinion to tune so your back foot is directly over the mast. You could tune by changing fuse length, stab size, stab angle, front foil size etc. Once you have all this correct for ideal back foot position then you can make sure that the position of this foil on your board is conducive to slogging or pumping up with your weight position on the board for balance matching the positioning of the foil relative to your centre of mass for nice lift.
Now i am not sure of your tangent regarding Axis but moving the foil closer to mast as axis has done reduces the torque (lift) and reduces dramatically the pump potential. It arguably helps the rider overpower foil in lift during a tight turn but i am not so sure this is helpful due to upsetting the pitch easy and thereby efficiency of the foil in the turn.
I don't think you read my post as I wasn't making assumption here as i am giving my point as a mechanical engineer and how all these levers are interacting.
So if I am winging and want to move my back foot forward (you think is good) to be more over mast, I could change shimming on stab to increase front foot pressure but that will increase drag, or I could combine moving backfoot forward with front foot backwards. Is there a disadvantage to a narrower stance?
