From the wings I have tried :
- Strike are amazing but they don't have a good low sheet and go low end.
- Ensis score is too nervous
- Ensis spin is really agile when luffed but it is too heavy and will drip the tail if it doesn't have enough wind
- Armstrong v2 , way too heavy and drops the tail but good power on demand but maybe can't be ridden at full psi
- duotone Dutch roll too much
is there anything really light and agile like strikes but with good low end grunt ?
Mantis comes to mind for both strong low end and very stable luffing. I haven't tried the 23 gear but the Mantis Apex probably improves those attributes even further.
Glide is very light and well behaved wave riding and the carbon handles improve the low end but i wouldn't say low end is it's strong attribute.
Select to expand quotemindhoc said..
From the wings I have tried :
- Strike are amazing but they don't have a good low sheet and go low end.
- Ensis score is too nervous
- Ensis spin is really agile when luffed but it is too heavy and will drip the tail if it doesn't have enough wind
- Armstrong v2 , way too heavy and drops the tail but good power on demand but maybe can't be ridden at full psi
- duotone Dutch roll too much
is there anything really light and agile like strikes but with good low end grunt ?
Many F-one riders have commented with similar points and their take is swing v2 is your answer.
I am a little out of date but i ride Ozone v2 for this purpose and they were better than Armstrong, Smik and PPC when i tried them.
You don't hear much about them though.
Airush Freewing Nitro - lightest wing on the market ( I think the 4m is 1.68kg) and plenty power and stability. Flag-out king
Smik v2 - amazing flagout. Not twitchy, tight canopy and lightweight. Can't fault them but my only concern is how Scotty can improve the v3 (other than the change to solid handles)
My 2c
Light and well behaved - Smik.
Light and powerful - PPC Surge.
Well behaved and powerful - 2023 Unit.
Cabrinha Mantis are awesome. V1 was great V2 better. Upwind brilliant and never feel unruly, just an easy to use wing which goes under the radar a bit. Tried and owned lots duotone, fone etc
KTs don't seem to get much exposure yet but are phenomenal wings. Light, balanced, grunty. I'm 90 kgs and the low end punch/high wind handling are nicely balanced.
Naish Matador LT is a powerful plug and play type wing. It's my go-too for waves, flags out perfectly and tons of grunt. But if your looking for speed and upwind, I also love my Mode but I wouldn't call it a low-end wing, but it ticks all the other boxes perfectly. Also, friends are loving the new Cabrinha.
Select to expand quoteNordRoi said..
The swing V2 wins, amazing wave wing!!
How are they different to the Strike V2?
Select to expand quotemindhoc said..
From the wings I have tried :
- Strike are amazing but they don't have a good low sheet and go low end.
- Ensis score is too nervous
- Ensis spin is really agile when luffed but it is too heavy and will drip the tail if it doesn't have enough wind
- Armstrong v2 , way too heavy and drops the tail but good power on demand but maybe can't be ridden at full psi
- duotone Dutch roll too much
is there anything really light and agile like strikes but with good low end grunt ?
I've tried the 2022 Duotone Units and various other wings, but the strikes feel far more powerful. I think the technique to get them going is very different though. I've found all the hard handled wings do very little when pumped.
With the strikes they grab the air, and you pull yourself forward. This never works with the other wings, they seem to need to be more sheeted in to produce any power, but then you can't propel yourself onto the foil in the same way.
Select to expand quotePeterP said..
Airush Freewing Nitro - lightest wing on the market ( I think the 4m is 1.68kg) and plenty power and stability. Flag-out king
It's the best I've tried too. They keep flying even as the apparent wind drops to quite low levels
Select to expand quoteShlogger said..
Naish Matador LT is a powerful plug and play type wing. It's my go-too for waves, flags out perfectly and tons of grunt. But if your looking for speed and upwind, I also love my Mode but I wouldn't call it a low-end wing, but it ticks all the other boxes perfectly. Also, friends are loving the new Cabrinha.
Is that the one with the newer handles, 3 long ones rather than the loop ones? thinking of buying a 3m to replace 3m mantis v1 which is a bit twitchy fir me, on/off not much low end.
I tried lot of wings and choose the Mantis V2 and now a V3.
They have a great balance and when flagging the stiff fronthandle helps a lot more to control the wing/prevent flipping when youhave weird winds.
I got last weekend my V3, but havent ridden it. Profile looks very close, maybe a tiny bit more pulled in tips, but double inflating tubes and a dumpvale, AWESOME handles are a true upgrade. It seems to be stiffer with less pressure as well
North Mode: really powerfull, blasts upwind but a very soft fronthandle on the leading edge and a dihydral makes it prone to flip over when riding. When the make it with an Cab. style stiff fronthandle it would be great.
I demoed the NP Fly for a week and that one could tik al your boxxes. powerful, great to surf and although not s light feelinmg as an Strike, it is serious lighter as Ensis. aprox Duotone Slick level (not the SLS) with the best handles I used so far.
The demo had a lot of leech flutter, but it was an pre-production. the word is that this is solved in the production wing.
The Smik V3, with the lomger hard handles can be a winner as well. I liked both V1 and V2 and with 95kg+ i,m not a featherweight.Naish: lets say it is a marmite wing, some like it, I did not. a friend of me is Naish teamrider so I tried them all but none of the impressed me.
I think the call was for really light surf wing. Can we get some weights in the comments. Some of the brands mentioned are not so light. Mantis? PPC?
Lots of enthusiasm for smik but they are only ok.
The only comments that got my attention so far is regarding the airush. Fone set the bar high very early in the wave riding category and I would think we would have some very stand out wings by now from some other brands but maybe not. Lots of ok wings with unfortunate compromises.
regarding weight: Mantis 5m V2 without windows 2.5kg, Mantis V3 with windows 2.9kg, but from my experience the actual weight is only a small part of how a wing behaves and feel in LW. Profile has IMO lot more influence on the actual feel.
Regarding compromises, every wing has great and lesser points so each is a compromise. It isnt all black and whitye as you seem to suggest. There are wings that suit your personal needs/prefferences and there are that don,t suit you personally but are liked a lot by others.
Select to expand quotergmacca said..Shlogger said..
Naish Matador LT is a powerful plug and play type wing. It's my go-too for waves, flags out perfectly and tons of grunt. But if your looking for speed and upwind, I also love my Mode but I wouldn't call it a low-end wing, but it ticks all the other boxes perfectly. Also, friends are loving the new Cabrinha.
Is that the one with the newer handles, 3 long ones rather than the loop ones? thinking of buying a 3m to replace 3m mantis v1 which is a bit twitchy fir me, on/off not much low end.
It Is. The 3 long handles are stiff and very comfy.
I have the Mantis V2 as well and if it's on the upper range of wind for a given size I really like it. But for grunt and lightness, I like the Matador LT's and FOnes. The Freedom wing also feels very..FOne-ish. ;) I'm just not a fan of the Fone handles.
Select to expand quoteAnyBoard said..
I think the call was for really light surf wing. Can we get some weights in the comments. Some of the brands mentioned are not so light. Mantis? PPC?
Lots of enthusiasm for smik but they are only ok.
The only comments that got my attention so far is regarding the airush. Fone set the bar high very early in the wave riding category and I would think we would have some very stand out wings by now from some other brands but maybe not. Lots of ok wings with unfortunate compromises.
Thanks @AnyBoard, I failed to explain why I was asking for a "light" one. Basically the problem I have experienced with all the heavy wings is that they drop their trailing edge when luffing downwind and there is not enough wind to power them up. Strikes don't but big Strike CWCs do. One thing that I really like about the non CWC Strikes is that they stay horizontal even in the lightest wind and when you pull them up, you can see everything in front of you.
The Swings could have that extra low sheet and go characteristics which would be good when the ocean is messy az and the wind is just not happening. The Airush sounds pretty good too with its hookipa struts
Select to expand quotemindhoc said..AnyBoard said..
I think the call was for really light surf wing. Can we get some weights in the comments. Some of the brands mentioned are not so light. Mantis? PPC?
Lots of enthusiasm for smik but they are only ok.
The only comments that got my attention so far is regarding the airush. Fone set the bar high very early in the wave riding category and I would think we would have some very stand out wings by now from some other brands but maybe not. Lots of ok wings with unfortunate compromises.
Thanks @AnyBoard, I failed to explain why I was asking for a "light" one. Basically the problem I have experienced with all the heavy wings is that they drop their trailing edge when luffing downwind and there is not enough wind to power them up. Strikes don't but big Strike CWCs do. One thing that I really like about the non CWC Strikes is that they stay horizontal even in the lightest wind and when you pull them up, you can see everything in front of you.
The Swings could have that extra low sheet and go characteristics which would be good when the ocean is messy az and the wind is just not happening. The Airush sounds pretty good too with its hookipa struts
Yes I am looking at wing performance for the same circumstances as you. Mostly Downwind with the wing always on the front handle. Some wave riding also. I also would prefer a draft stable wing that doesn't need hard handles to make it perform. I still like my wasp v2 handles for comfort over the others i have tried including the hard options.
Even though I own 3 4 5m wings i am on the 4 90% of the time so would buy a dearer lighter wing as long as i know the performance is good and the canopy is not going to bag.
Sounds like a simple requirement right.
Select to expand quotemindhoc said..AnyBoard said..
I think the call was for really light surf wing. Can we get some weights in the comments. Some of the brands mentioned are not so light. Mantis? PPC?
Lots of enthusiasm for smik but they are only ok.
The only comments that got my attention so far is regarding the airush. Fone set the bar high very early in the wave riding category and I would think we would have some very stand out wings by now from some other brands but maybe not. Lots of ok wings with unfortunate compromises.
Thanks @AnyBoard, I failed to explain why I was asking for a "light" one. Basically the problem I have experienced with all the heavy wings is that they drop their trailing edge when luffing downwind and there is not enough wind to power them up. Strikes don't but big Strike CWCs do. One thing that I really like about the non CWC Strikes is that they stay horizontal even in the lightest wind and when you pull them up, you can see everything in front of you.
The Swings could have that extra low sheet and go characteristics which would be good when the ocean is messy az and the wind is just not happening. The Airush sounds pretty good too with its hookipa struts
So you are saying light equal best wing for wave riding? I think there is more towards that as when there are enough wind every wing will flag in some way (agree some more stable than others).
Naish Matador LT 5m - worst wing for the wave. had to push the wing down to flag. the wing was advertised especially for flagging and waves. I had to give it to friend which came back with same conclusion.
ENSIS Spin 4 & 5m - Fantastic in the wave, super light.
ENSIS Score 6m - Big wing for the waves but workable. Good for a heavier rider as the wing has a lot of punch.
At the moment I ride the ENSIS Score LTD 5m X-Ply canopy and Hookipa leading edge - what a wing 
. Will be soon my go to wing for downwinder and waves.
Select to expand quotemarco said..mindhoc said..AnyBoard said..
I think the call was for really light surf wing. Can we get some weights in the comments. Some of the brands mentioned are not so light. Mantis? PPC?
Lots of enthusiasm for smik but they are only ok.
The only comments that got my attention so far is regarding the airush. Fone set the bar high very early in the wave riding category and I would think we would have some very stand out wings by now from some other brands but maybe not. Lots of ok wings with unfortunate compromises.
Thanks @AnyBoard, I failed to explain why I was asking for a "light" one. Basically the problem I have experienced with all the heavy wings is that they drop their trailing edge when luffing downwind and there is not enough wind to power them up. Strikes don't but big Strike CWCs do. One thing that I really like about the non CWC Strikes is that they stay horizontal even in the lightest wind and when you pull them up, you can see everything in front of you.
The Swings could have that extra low sheet and go characteristics which would be good when the ocean is messy az and the wind is just not happening. The Airush sounds pretty good too with its hookipa struts
So you are saying light equal best wing for wave riding? I think there is more towards that as when there are enough wind every wing will flag in some way (agree some more stable than others).
Naish Matador LT 5m - worst wing for the wave. had to push the wing down to flag. the wing was advertised especially for flagging and waves. I had to give it to friend which came back with same conclusion.
ENSIS Spin 4 & 5m - Fantastic in the wave, super light.
ENSIS Score 6m - Big wing for the waves but workable. Good for a heavier rider as the wing has a lot of punch.
At the moment I ride the ENSIS Score LTD 5m X-Ply canopy and Hookipa leading edge - what a wing . Will be soon my go to wing for downwinder and waves.
If there's enough wind not maintain the wing flying then it doesn't matter too much . For example I've got an ensis spin 6.1m which is awesome to luff and throw around depowered if there's enough wind to keep it flying straight, otherwise I end up riding faster than the wind and it ends up dropping in front of me and blocking my entire front view even if I lift my arm up. I also have a 3.1 which doesn't have that issue but it's definitely not that well behaved in stronger conditions. I guess my question is more related to wings 5m and above since heavy wings will luff fine when it's 18kn+. The conditions I am getting locally are between 13kn to 16kn and messy ocean
If you riding faster then the wind, keep the wing (flagged) behind your back. I started doing that only a few months ago and for my riding it was a gamechanger.
Especially in lighter winds this seems easier as in stronger wind (because it is easier to go faster then the windsspeed)
Select to expand quoteJeroensurf said..
If you riding faster then the wind, keep the wing (flagged) behind your back. I started doing that only a few months ago and for my riding it was a gamechanger.
Especially in lighter winds this seems easier as in stronger wind (because it is easier to go faster then the windsspeed)
Oh good point , I will try that out , that might fix all problems ??
It is a good point, esp in lighter winds. If you are in 15kts of wind , and riding deep downwind at around 15kts of board speed then the apparent wind that the wing "sees" is effectively 0 kts and so the trailing edge of the wing drops. In anything over about 18-20kts breeze the wing will see an apparent wind of more than zero kts ( as boardspeed is generally around this or less when riding swell unless conditions are big) so the trailing edge stays up. My solution to this issue in lighter winds is to either ride shallower angles DW or to hold the first strut handle ( instead of the LE flagging handle) and brace the leading edge against my forearm - essentially levers the trailing edge up.
Select to expand quotemarco said..
ENSIS Spin 4 & 5m - Fantastic in the wave, super light.
I've got an Ensis Spin 3.1 but it doesn't feel lighter than the Airush Nitro 5m
