Hi ive just converted to the black series, (from red) , I am on the 930 HPS. The 999 is getting alot of attention . What have the establish Black series riders replaced with the 999? Also if I had a 2 front foil quiver, and one being the 999 what would the other be ? I am 175cm and 83kg . Cheers in advance Jeff

Great question. I'm all over this at 90 kg at 183cm . For proning I ride he 890 BSC most days and 880 HPS . I also ride both these wings on my ding , these are my pair of go to wings in most conditions. In super light winds I'll break out my 1010 & 1150. For dinging I am open ocean dead down wind rider , trying to go as fast as a I can without reaching ,which is the basis to my feedback on these wings. So let's drop in the ART 999 where does it fit . Not as low start speed as the 890 BSC but better than the 880 HPS , very low stall speed like the 890 but much higher speed and up there with the 880 HPS. I'm at home on the 880 & 890 on the prone with the 890 definitely the one of the best/easiest I've used. The 880 is faster and a bit more unforgiving but man this thing flies and pumps super quick. The ART on the prone is an unsteady roller coaster at first but man this thing goes , it has some wing flex and if you are a larger unit like me , it can be a handful. It's a no for me on the prone .

Back on the Ding the ART 999 lights up like the orient express on a reach and running DW in the ocean it breaths on a breach letting you adjust and survive. It's really fast but the 880 HPS can match it , the 890 BSC is left in both their wakes and blows and dies when you force it overspeed. Recommend the 380 over the 420 tail when you are dinging the 890 in solid wind but sub 20kn & moderate swell on a 5m you'll enjoy a packed lunch and not break any speed records.

So back to the question what wing will the ART 999 replace ? For me I find the 880 HPS matches it at both ends & more maneuverable at 4" narrower , the 999 really does have amazing lift ...actually too much for me , I'm waiting for the 899 & 799 ART so at this stage I'm still rocking and rolling on the 880 & 890 as my fav 2 wing set . IMHO the 880 HPS punches way above its weight and knocks the ART999 out of the ring.

I only ride the 999 and 830 now. Same as Piros the 830 has replaced my 880 and the 999 replaced my 880 (until I can't get going anymore) and 1050.

Both very different wings but amazing fun

I have black series and was told by an experienced rider that the BCS 810 is a strong competitor. The 810 is very different however for a limited quiver the 810 would just win.
I bought the 810.

What's confusing is , up to now I've paid particular attention to area of the front foil , however the foilers that have progressed the most are riding smaller and smaller foils. The discussion so far is the 999 at 1000mm is the big foot print and 830 as the smaller . maybe a quick mention of the 1050 as a afterthought. Is it a combination of foil evolution or riders addaption. Or both ?

Interesting topic for me because I really wanted to test ride the 999 for my style of riding, and I just got the chance to ride it well powered on my 4m Slick in flat water chop today (ultra short fuse and 420 stab). I think it is super important to talk about your style of riding when describing a wing. I think I related to Piro's description the best. Anyway I consider myself and oddball since I'm not much of surf or downwinder rider. I ride strapless and tack both ways as much as I jibe. I'm just constantly turning/transitioning every 30 meters. Many of my toe and heelside tacks will just continue right around to full 360's, and I do a bunch of traditional backwinded 360's every session as well. I guess you'd call it basic strapless ole-guy-bad-knee freestyle-ish riding. Even when I downwind in swell I try to mix in a bunch of the same riding style (more challenging !)

For me the 999 had a super smooth feel and amazing glide and pumping efficiency as you'd expect. It was a smooth wide turner,..but at least for me it did not particularly like getting forced into a tight pivot turn at the tail end of an upwind transition. It wasn't a wing I wanted to spend a lot of time tacking with.

Although I've never ridden it I'm guessing the Axis wing I'd like the most for my riding style and weight (78 kg) would be more like the 830/880 hps (?). Just because they are a notch down in size/span from my current go-to wing (Gong Veloce LT at 90cm, 1350 sq cm, mid-aspect, 1 L volume). My "clunky" Veloce LT could easily match the "comfort" speed of the 999 even with a big ole 47cm Veloce stab in back, but it would also easily transition from carve to tight pivot turn while getting slammed tacking into 30 knot headwind in messy chop. Anyway, guess I'll need to figure out how to test ride an 830/880 hps without having to buy them first

I'm 75kg and ride a 65L board, and I only wing. I prefer to ride very small foils, and will probably continue to go smaller, I prefer the feeling, control and overall find myself less exhausted.

I ride a HPS830 in anything <=16 knots with a 5/6M wing. And when >16 knots I'll be on HPS700 and a 4M wing. I'm avidly awaiting the 799, as I feel this will fit in my quiver perfectly. I've taken the 700 uprange in swell, and only started to feel overpowered around 27-33 knots. Around 25+ I feel a HPS650 would be the better choice.

All learning and having fun, that's the game anyway!

StephenZ said..

Alysum said..
The 1050 has approx 500cm2 more than the 830 and 999, 1050 will get up earlier and easier but once up the 999 efficiency smashes everything out of the park. Plus it is incredibly user friendly for such a high aspect wing.
The 830 can be pushed harder and is more predictable and stable than the 999 in high wind and/or messy conditions.

This is my quiver, and spot on agree with this. Definitely need the 1050 for light wind days. Still wondering if I need the 830, but maybe for the big messy days exactly as you say. It's is also great for kiting. The HPS foils have great top end because they don't generate too much lift as you push them harder.

Yeah 830 would be great for kite too. Only tried it quickly once under a kite.
The real question is whether the smaller ART will replace my 830 when they come out

Alysum said..

StephenZ said..

Alysum said..
The 1050 has approx 500cm2 more than the 830 and 999, 1050 will get up earlier and easier but once up the 999 efficiency smashes everything out of the park. Plus it is incredibly user friendly for such a high aspect wing.
The 830 can be pushed harder and is more predictable and stable than the 999 in high wind and/or messy conditions.

This is my quiver, and spot on agree with this. Definitely need the 1050 for light wind days. Still wondering if I need the 830, but maybe for the big messy days exactly as you say. It's is also great for kiting. The HPS foils have great top end because they don't generate too much lift as you push them harder.

Yeah 830 would be great for kite too. Only tried it quickly once under a kite.
The real question is whether the smaller ART will replace my 830 when they come out

oh god you're probably right ahhaa.... 799 ART replacing the 830 isn't incomprehensible move.

I've used my 999 3 times and my experience of it is that it feels like it has a higher take-off speed than the 880 and it overpowers a lot earlier.
My experience is so different to what I've been reading on the forums that I have to assume that it's me.

What wind ranges are people using the 999 in? Dwight mentioned that his 999 replaced his 980, 880 and 830 but I have to say that an 830 is sounding pretty appealing right now.

Today is a typical example, 12-25 knots earlier in the day so I put the 999 on, increasing to 25-35 later, lots of hills upwind so it's always gusty as hell. The PPC 3.8m wing and 999 foil were just going bananas and shifting down to the 880 was a huge relief, never mind changing wings.

In terms of set-up, I'm an 87kg early intermediate (I can't jibe) with a 90 litre KT Wing Drifter. I live in Wellington, New Zealand, where the wind tends to be all (a lot of the time) or nothing. If you're going to have a 1-wing quiver then it will be a 4m.
The mast track on the Wing Drifter seems a long way forward. I'm running the carbon mast right at the back of the track, and all three Axis foils (1010, 999, 880) need 2 washers of shim to reduce front end lift to get a balance between my feet. The foot straps are on their furthest forward setting.

I've used my 999 3 times and my experience of it is that it feels like it has a higher take-off speed than the 880 and it overpowers a lot earlier.
My experience is so different to what I've been reading on the forums that I have to assume that it's me.

What wind ranges are people using the 999 in? Dwight mentioned that his 999 replaced his 980, 880 and 830 but I have to say that an 830 is sounding pretty appealing right now.

Today is a typical example, 12-25 knots earlier in the day so I put the 999 on, increasing to 25-35 later, lots of hills upwind so it's always gusty as hell. The PPC 3.8m wing and 999 foil were just going bananas and shifting down to the 880 was a huge relief, never mind changing wings.

In terms of set-up, I'm an 87kg early intermediate (I can't jibe) with a 90 litre KT Wing Drifter. I live in Wellington, New Zealand, where the wind tends to be all (a lot of the time) or nothing. If you're going to have a 1-wing quiver then it will be a 4m.
The mast track on the Wing Drifter seems a long way forward. I'm running the carbon mast right at the back of the track, and all three Axis foils (1010, 999, 880) need 2 washers of shim to reduce front end lift to get a balance between my feet. The foot straps are on their furthest forward setting.

Piros said..
Great question. I'm all over this at 90 kg at 183cm . For proning I ride he 890 BSC most days and 880 HPS . I also ride both these wings on my ding , these are my pair of go to wings in most conditions. In super light winds I'll break out my 1010 & 1150. For dinging I am open ocean dead down wind rider , trying to go as fast as a I can without reaching ,which is the basis to my feedback on these wings. So let's drop in the ART 999 where does it fit . Not as low start speed as the 890 BSC but better than the 880 HPS , very low stall speed like the 890 but much higher speed and up there with the 880 HPS. I'm at home on the 880 & 890 on the prone with the 890 definitely the one of the best/easiest I've used. The 880 is faster and a bit more unforgiving but man this thing flies and pumps super quick. The ART on the prone is an unsteady roller coaster at first but man this thing goes , it has some wing flex and if you are a larger unit like me , it can be a handful. It's a no for me on the prone .

Back on the Ding the ART 999 lights up like the orient express on a reach and running DW in the ocean it breaths on a breach letting you adjust and survive. It's really fast but the 880 HPS can match it , the 890 BSC is left in both their wakes and blows and dies when you force it overspeed. Recommend the 380 over the 420 tail when you are dinging the 890 in solid wind but sub 20kn & moderate swell on a 5m you'll enjoy a packed lunch and not break any speed records.

So back to the question what wing will the ART 999 replace ? For me I find the 880 HPS matches it at both ends & more maneuverable at 4" narrower , the 999 really does have amazing lift ...actually too much for me , I'm waiting for the 899 & 799 ART so at this stage I'm still rocking and rolling on the 880 & 890 as my fav 2 wing set . IMHO the 880 HPS punches way above its weight and knocks the ART999 out of the ring.

I've been riding 890 and 740 BSC and 880 HPS this year.. I'm 67kg .. 890 for dock starting, flat water winging to learn new tricks and small wave prone.. 740 when its bigger prone, and winging in strong winds / bigger waves / swell / downwinding in 30knots + and the 880 for winging downwinders, winging in lighter wind / smaller waves and as a goto 75% of the time (if i can get it back off my wife..)

Finally got a go on the 999 today .. ( 5m Mantis, 8- 14 knots 33L Autopilot Short Fuze, 380 stab 82 mast) .. hmmm .. I felt like a beginner learning to gybe again.. I'm not convinced it got up quicker than the 880 and nowhere near as early as the 890 Was almost as fast as the 880 and much faster than 890.. Stall speed was impressively low though, and i could ride ankle high wind chop right up to overhead groundswell in control. It definitely tacked beautifully but back to my first point, i was just so different to gybe than anything I'd used. Maybe I needed a shorter fuze ?!

I really don't see it fitting into my quiver and doing anything better than the HPS 880 does.. Its not as fast (IMHO) .. doesn't turn as tight (with my weight and mediocre skills) and doesn't foil up any quicker. The 880 however does all that and more in a more compact package.

The only time i think I'd choose a 999 over the others is if i was going to do a prone surf downwinder.. and then I'd bolt a 420 stab on the back..

880 definitely gets my vote as a 1 foil does all well over the 999.. Will be interested to try the smaller ones...

J Foz said..
Hey , so the 999 has it's place ,glide and speed , but also the 880/830 has a favorite place in alot of quivers . Its as individual as most things in life . I love the glide not as into caving turns as a thing i look for , I can turn the bigger span well enough to keep me happy . The summer downwinders will sort me out with what I love . Ive just purchased the1050 hoping it will link me up enough to justify the loss of carving . Haha see if I am disappointed in a couple of months. ??

For me the 1050 is the ultimate light (8 to 12kn) wing only to be beaten by the 1150 for lighter wind. Me 76kg.

Alysum said..
I've stopped using the 1050 since I got the 999...

That does it, definitely not buying a 999.

Hey , 6ish sessions later on the 1050 and I think I got it right , (the decision to purchase it ) my light wind favorite with so much glide , I mounted it back 20mm from where I would ride the 930 and it became user friendly . We've had some easterly winds in Perth and I've been linking the river swells, knee height stuff , the extra glide makes my limited skill less obvious . There's plenty of sharks in the local waters lately ,the odd river session is a little more relaxing. I will wait out for a 999 at this point . If the 999 crew have a update a few months in now. I would love to hear it either way the froth or it's limitations. Loving the stoke , unrelated had a kite last week (it's been 15 months ) a little nervous on the launch , however I quickly settled and had a absolute ball in shoulder chest high waves . Easy to get out through the break and over shallow reef , this I miss.??

martyman said..

DWF said..

Dspace said..
Anyway, guess I'll need to figure out how to test ride an 830/880 hps without having to buy them first

You would like the 880 more than the 830.

the 880 is an incredible wing

I demoed the 880 and 810.
The 810 foiled as quick or slightly quicker than the 880, more user friendly in rough choppy conditions and almost as fast if pushed.
I bought the 810.
For lighter conditions I have the 930 and 1050.