Select to expand quotespikefoil said..
Help please! I was going to buy the MA1225 but after following this thread I'm confused!I'm low intermediate winging only, 86kg using Naish 95l, with Armie HS1850, 60 fuse, HS232 stab and 85 A+ mast..In flat water the setup is manageable but as soon as I turn onto any unbroken swell I can't control the lift so I'm looking for a smaller front foil. Initially I thought about the new MA but there's absolutely no money for the performance mast and that looks like it might be an issue?So is the CF1200v2 or even the HS1250 a better option that the MA1225 or am I overthinking this?
Same weight, gybe and nothing else and same experience with 1550 V2 and 85A+ with too much lift. Got MA1000, gets up early, not used is swells yet but in flat water lift is more constant with speed and confident it'll be fine in swells. Taking me quite a while to tame pitchiness and find combination of stab and mast position that suits me. Added 205 tail that complicates tuning.
Select to expand quoteWingnutz said..
To get the Performance mast angles using your A+ mast consider this: ppcfoiling.com/product/ppc-board-shim/
Wingnuts - I am using MA1000 and 85A+ on 88l WungSUP. If I move mast forward (10) I find take off is fierce and abrupt. Do you think a board shim will help tame that?
Select to expand quotepatronus said..Wingnutz said..
To get the Performance mast angles using your A+ mast consider this: ppcfoiling.com/product/ppc-board-shim/
Wingnuts - I am using MA1000 and 85A+ on 88l WungSUP. If I move mast forward (10) I find take off is fierce and abrupt. Do you think a board shim will help tame that?
With the HS and CF foils the technique for getting on foil is a little different. with the HS and CF you can almost pump onto foil (especially with the larger sizes). With the MA and HA foils the technique I use is to focus on building some board speed and the board begins to release and the foil engages, don't stomp on the tail to bring it to full foil, instead keep the board mostly level to the water and start to turn upwind. Getting on foil should happen smoothly and gradually with the MA or HA. As you get better at it, you can get more aggressive. As long as your mast isn't too far forward, this will lead to a very steady and smooth jump to foil. If you are still having a lot of "fierce and abrupt" jumping, try moving the mast back .5cm to 1cm and see if that helps.
Select to expand quoteWHS said..
If getting new performance mast, MA foil, and new 235 tail, is it necessary to to also get a new fuse? I have V1. Seems like an unneeded extra $500us.
I am still using the original fuse. Like you I never saw the purpose in spending the money to upgrade. I just have to convert what everyone else is using for shims to my old one. But it works fine. Don't know if you saw it, I posted on page 12 a few posts before yours about using the ma1225, 235,205 and 935 mast but with the old fuse. Despite what hilly said the new tails fit fine. I have had no issues putting them on the older fuse.
Select to expand quoteOahuwaterwalker said..
After probably 10-15 sessions with MA800 and then experimenting with 525/205 and 725/205 with and without .5 shim and in CRAZY Kailua conditions (25-35 knots and 2-4 meter ocean swell and breaking waves) I've come to a decision...
I'm sticking with the 725/205 combo and selling the MA800. Let me be clear, the MA800 is a fantastic foil, but the 725 just suits my conditions better. With the 205 tail, the 725 is very surfy and more pitch stable, similar case for the 525/205 combo.
I'm keeping the MA1000 for the super light wind days where there is also surf.
I like to have have 1 front for really light wind (now the HA1225) and after I like to have only 1 unique foil for the rest of the conditions. But I am not able still to decide between the 725 and the 800. Both have their own qualities. I didn't try with tthe 205. I use the 195 (+1 shim). I like the glide of the the 725 and this capacity to keep going pumping with the legs when there is no air in the wing. I have the feeling that I go quicker with the 725 too. The point where the 800 is clearly better is the ease to keep going after a big jump. They both start to fly early. Tough to chose definitely 1. Maybe the next MA625 could be also a
solution. ?????
Oahuwaterwalker, have you the feeling that you lose glide with the 205 compared with the 195?
Select to expand quoteSonsaleta said..
I like to have have 1 front for really light wind (now the HA1225) and after I like to have only 1 unique foil for the rest of the conditions. But I am not able still to decide between the 725 and the 800. Both have their own qualities. I didn't try with tthe 205. I use the 195 (+1 shim). I like the glide of the the 725 and this capacity to keep going pumping with the legs when there is no air in the wing. I have the feeling that I go quicker with the 725 too. The point where the 800 is clearly better is the ease to keep going after a big jump. They both start to fly early. Tough to chose definitely 1. Maybe the next MA625 could be also a
solution. ?????
Oahuwaterwalker, have you the feeling that you lose glide with the 205 compared with the 195?
Hello Sonsaleta,
I'm actually finding I have more glide with the 205, but a little less top end speed. It also helps to get all my foils up a little earlier.
Separately...
I was supposed to hand off my MA800 to a new owner today but after taking it for another session I had an epiphany. The 800 works best (for me) in the same conditions where I would normally use the HA525. The 800 is a little bit slower, the glide is about the same, the turning is very similar (you can crank turns in steep sections), but the pitch stability of the 800 makes it WAY easier to ride. When powered up on a wave, I can generate a lot of speed and glide from tight s turns across the wave face. Given how close they perform for surfing I'm thinking the 800 is the winner over the 525 for the crazy days. Being a little slower on those days is actually helpful.
While the 725 and 800 have about the same stall speed, I find that the 800 needs an additional 2 knots of wind to get to foil. I know this might sound crazy, but here's my hypothesis on the physics of this. Let's say you need a hypothetical 8 knots of board speed for the 725 and 800 to get to foil, however past 8 knots their lift performance is about the same. With almost no drag, the 725 goes from 0 to 8 knots easily. Due to extra drag, the 800 need more wind to hit 8 knots and lift. Basically, I find the 725 can get to lift speed in 10-12 knots, but the 800 needs closer to 14 which is about the same as the 525.
After today, I think I'm going to have the following wing foiling quiver:
MA1000 for days when the winds are 8-12 knots but there's a solid ground swell.
HA725 for the 10-18 knot days with rolling swell or breaking waves.
MA800 for 18 knots plus and more critical surf.
Select to expand quoteOahuwaterwalker said..Sonsaleta said..
I like to have have 1 front for really light wind (now the HA1225) and after I like to have only 1 unique foil for the rest of the conditions. But I am not able still to decide between the 725 and the 800. Both have their own qualities. I didn't try with tthe 205. I use the 195 (+1 shim). I like the glide of the the 725 and this capacity to keep going pumping with the legs when there is no air in the wing. I have the feeling that I go quicker with the 725 too. The point where the 800 is clearly better is the ease to keep going after a big jump. They both start to fly early. Tough to chose definitely 1. Maybe the next MA625 could be also a
solution. ?????
Oahuwaterwalker, have you the feeling that you lose glide with the 205 compared with the 195?
Hello Sonsaleta,
I'm actually finding I have more glide with the 205, but a little less top end speed. It also helps to get all my foils up a little earlier.
Separately...
I was supposed to hand off my MA800 to a new owner today but after taking it for another session I had an epiphany. The 800 works best (for me) in the same conditions where I would normally use the HA525. The 800 is a little bit slower, the glide is about the same, the turning is very similar (you can crank turns in steep sections), but the pitch stability of the 800 makes it WAY easier to ride. When powered up on a wave, I can generate a lot of speed and glide from tight s turns across the wave face. Given how close they perform for surfing I'm thinking the 800 is the winner over the 525 for the crazy days. Being a little slower on those days is actually helpful.
While the 725 and 800 have about the same stall speed, I find that the 800 needs an additional 2 knots of wind to get to foil. I know this might sound crazy, but here's my hypothesis on the physics of this. Let's say you need a hypothetical 8 knots of board speed for the 725 and 800 to get to foil, however past 8 knots their lift performance is about the same. With almost no drag, the 725 goes from 0 to 8 knots easily. Due to extra drag, the 800 need more wind to hit 8 knots and lift. Basically, I find the 725 can get to lift speed in 10-12 knots, but the 800 needs closer to 14 which is about the same as the 525.
After today, I think I'm going to have the following wing foiling quiver:
MA1000 for days when the winds are 8-12 knots but there's a solid ground swell.
HA725 for the 10-18 knot days with rolling swell or breaking waves.
MA800 for 18 knots plus and more critical surf.
Thanks for your feedback Oahuwalterwalker. I appreciate.
Curiously I don't have the same experience for the stall speed. Not the same way to start to fly but for me they start more or less with the same wind. Around 11-12 knots. (75kg with 5m). the 525 I don't use it often because I like how I say before to have only 1 foil up of 11-12 knots to know well my equipment. It's really good but in some sections of waves without power or if the conditions change and drop the wind you could be in trouble when with the 800 or 725 you keep going. So more versatility basically. when the wind drop actually I prefer the 725 because you can pump easier with your legs and keep going. with bigger waves I think I prefer the 800, more control. With small wave better the 725 because it has more glide. :). Tough to chose.
I was out recently on the MA1000 / 60F / 205 (red+blue) @ 6.5 on mast track with a 5M when the wind picked up to around 20knts. I practiced a few flat water airs (scary high with the Aluula OR) and decided I needed to test the 525 with the 205 tail.
After putting the 525 on, everything else the same, I could not keep the nose down for my life. I had to move it back from 6.5 to around 4 and I probably could have gone further back. It had been a while since I rode the 525, but I would definitely say the 205 made it easier to start and to ride. It doesn't provide much cushion on landings though! Next time I'll try it with two reds at 4.
Select to expand quoteSonsaleta said..Oahuwaterwalker said..
"with bigger waves I think I prefer the 800, more control. With small wave better the 725 because it has more glide. :). Tough to chose."
I think what you said here sums it up. This was the same choice I was making with the 525/725 but the 525 is much harder than the 800 to ride.
I agree the glide of the 725 keeps it going longer when wind dies.
-Had the 1225 and the 205 now for abit; I'm on the beginner end of intermediate for SUPing Surfing at this point (still haven't had time to commit to getting good on a wing). I'll say they leveled me up a notch. Definitely recommend the new tails to match the MA's; evened out foot pressure issues present with other tails. Money well spent imo.
Can say it definitely made me better; partly because it's more confidence inspiring, partly because they self recover from breaches.no user input required! I'd been struggling to come to terms with HA's previously. Some days I'd be on and they'd be great; others were a rodeo. haven't had a bad day yet on the 1225. Was on a non A+ 72 mast with 70 fuse; moved to a 60 fuse after a few sessions with the new pair (chopped V previously my go to on the 70, but to squarely at 60) and loving it.
Just got the new 795 mast in, looking forward to seeing if makes an equal amount of impact as the MA did to my game. And if it does when using both the 1225 and the HA's.
Based on my very scientific iPhone apps the twist and bend angle deflections from old to new mast are basically cut in half.
Select to expand quotewanabxtrm said..
-Had the 1225 and the 205 now for abit; I'm on the beginner end of intermediate for SUPing Surfing at this point (still haven't had time to commit to getting good on a wing). I'll say they leveled me up a notch. Definitely recommend the new tails to match the MA's; evened out foot pressure issues present with other tails. Money well spent imo.
Can say it definitely made me better; partly because it's more confidence inspiring, partly because they self recover from breaches.no user input required! I'd been struggling to come to terms with HA's previously. Some days I'd be on and they'd be great; others were a rodeo. haven't had a bad day yet on the 1225. Was on a non A+ 72 mast with 70 fuse; moved to a 60 fuse after a few sessions with the new pair (chopped V previously my go to on the 70, but to squarely at 60) and loving it.
Just got the new 795 mast in, looking forward to seeing if makes an equal amount of impact as the MA did to my game. And if it does when using both the 1225 and the HA's.
Based on my very scientific iPhone apps the twist and bend angle deflections from old to new mast are basically cut in half.
Mate you were on an original 72 mast ? Damn you wont know yourself. For me the mast WAS the big change. I had the mast before the MA wings so got to run my other wings on it. Night and day. Sure the Mas were welcomed - but the new mast - it is where the real magic is. Anyone can design and make a stiffer mast - just use more carbon. But this is stiffer carbon mast but without the drag. enjoy.
For anyone wondering how the MA1225 goes with the new MA205 surf tail, it goes great! Really lively and responsive. It's a nice upgrade over the chopped 232, but not a necessary one I'd say if all you have is a chopped 232. The MA205 is simply a more fine tuned and evolved shape. I only had a few hours on it yesterday on the wing (50 fuse, .5 shim, MA1225 in 25 knots, head high+ wind swell), but it made the 1225 extra playful and fun. I haven't received the 235 tail to compare yet. I do have the feeling at slower speeds while pumping that I can maybe too easily shove the tail down through the water column like on the HA195 tail while trying to accelerate flagged out from lower speeds. I'm hoping the MA235 will help this aspect especially for SUP foil pumping and reconnecting. On the wing, the 205 feels great though.
I had my first go on a friend's MA1000 with the 205 tail and 60 fuse recently and was blown away at the surfy turns I was getting on the wing as well. Tip out, hard carving felt super secure and positive. The huge fun factor and performance accessibility outweighed the draggier feel of the MA compared to the slipperiness and speed of the HA to me. Both are nice to have depending on what you're after for that particular session and conditions. Really happy with how the whole rig is feeling surfing and winging.
After a few wing sessions with the DW board and HA wings, it felt amazing to jump on the 60L with 935M, ma800, 60f, 205 with two reds. Scored my favorite spot with flood tide against 25-35 knts at a choke point on a tidal river (Yorktown, VA). The conditions were all time with groomed chest plus swells on a conveyor belt with three wave sets every minute or so, just 100 yards from the protected launch. I was thinking the world tour would have eaten it up. The kickers were just nuts and I was too timid to jump, so just laying down thick carves and linking bumps.
The pump from one bump to the one behind was tricky and only made a couple. Staying high and pumping hard was key, but I often waited too long so lost speed. Much easier to link ahead through seams, although the MA1000 or Ha925 may have been better for the DW side. The MA800 with that 205 tail is extremely confidence inspiring, making huge drop ins an absolute blast, throwing pow turns all the while.
Wingman impact vest/ chest hook harness with their mono line and middle handle insert was a total game changer. My 3M OR Glide hybrid was very temperamental and I could just hook in and lean back and plow upwind like nothing. A friend borrowed the 3M while I tried some mini dw sup and prone runs and he came back in shortly after to switch to his 4M f-one saying the 3M OR was way too stiff 
Beers and lunch with the guys at the pub right at the launch was icing on the cake. Stoke cup full!! Hope y'all frothers score this weekend as well!
Select to expand quoteOahuwaterwalker said..
Just heard there's a MA625 coming soon.
And two larger sizes.
Select to expand quoteOahuwaterwalker said..
Just heard there's a MA625 coming soon.
And two larger sizes.
The 235 makes the 1225 so playful over the 205 &195. Turns great, pumps up easy in light winds and has inspired me to glide more. It will only be a light wind small wave set up for me.
Select to expand quoteNICKKernow said..
The 235 makes the 1225 so playful over the 205 &195. Turns great, pumps up easy in light winds and has inspired me to glide more. It will only be a light wind small wave set up for me.
235 more playful than 205 Tail? I finally rode the 235 on the MA1225 (50 fuse) for the first time yesterday. For sure it helps the low end and pump (can't wait to SUP foil that combo for making connections), but the 205/MA1225, 50 fuse combo feels so much more loose, fast and playful to me. The turns on the 205 require much less pressure. I was amazed at how much more stable the rig feels on the 235 though. I tried the 205 tail on the HA925 yesterday as well and really liked how it loosened up the ride over the HA195 tail that I'd normally run. Stall speed lowered as well which was nice. I did feel the additional drag limiting the 925's speed a little but the turning ability on the swell overshadowed that small down side.
The 1225 continues to amaze me as an all round foil for a 200+ pound rider. Mellow and easy to ride when you need it to be, high performance when you want to push it. The different tails, shims and fuses really allow you to dial in the behaviour you're looking for So good!
Select to expand quoteMidAtlanticFoil said..Oahuwaterwalker said..
Just heard there's a MA625 coming soon.
And two larger sizes.
I've heard seen 1750. what's the second?
any more rumors/details?
1400 plus ish. not a rumour. Production proto sorted ive heard Wont be long. Watched someone pump this around with ease today..
In a nutshell. I always wonder about Differences of foil brands. no big wave experience now but getting better in winging and jumped on axis hps range now.
I wondered about how much different frontwings are offered by Armstrong. What's the difference between the Axis hps series and the new ma from Armie for example? Both got similar AR I think. So hps isn't really high aspect!
For those that are interested - I am selling my Armie foil set - 935 performance mast, 1225 MA front foil and 205 tail. As new but at a significant discount. See the buy/sell section for details.
After reading the post still undecided which MA wing buy. I am 155lbs and ride a skywing 5' board (75lts). I have a A+ 85 mast with a HS1550v2 foil and a 232 stab. I co sider myself intermediate wingfoili g and i am starting to catch some swells. Ride in the ocean in 14-18 kts of wind. Should i get the MA1225 or the MA1000? I am worried that the 1225 would be too much of an overlap to the 1550, and i would be missing the performance of the 1000. Any advice will be welcome!
Select to expand quoteDriks said..
In a nutshell. I always wonder about Differences of foil brands. no big wave experience now but getting better in winging and jumped on axis hps range now.
I wondered about how much different frontwings are offered by Armstrong. What's the difference between the Axis hps series and the new ma from Armie for example? Both got similar AR I think. So hps isn't really high aspect!
No and nor are the Mas. Medium aspect / kinda in the name.
Select to expand quoteConCo said..
After reading the post still undecided which MA wing buy. I am 155lbs and ride a skywing 5' board (75lts). I have a A+ 85 mast with a HS1550v2 foil and a 232 stab. I co sider myself intermediate wingfoili g and i am starting to catch some swells. Ride in the ocean in 14-18 kts of wind. Should i get the MA1225 or the MA1000? I am worried that the 1225 would be too much of an overlap to the 1550, and i would be missing the performance of the 1000. Any advice will be welcome!
If you're keeping the 1550, you could easily go for the 1000 or 800. At 175lbs with a 69L board, I can get the MA1000 on foil in 10-12 knots of wind with a 5.2 wing. The MA1000 is great fun in smaller surf and the MA800 is fantastic in small to overhead surf with enough wind.
That said, I highly recommend picking up the MA205 tail if you're going for the MA wings. It makes both the 1000 and 800 easier to get on foil, more pitch stable, and works great rail to rail.
Hi All,
any feedback on the 800MA compared to the 725ha? Of course the 725 is faster but i'm looking for something easier on head to overhead waves. My dealer already gave me a great feedback but i would like to know more. I'm just afraid that using the all ha range i will feel stepping back on my progression and fun.
Appreciate your help. thanks
Select to expand quotewingedsurfer said..
Hi All,
any feedback on the 800MA compared to the 725ha? Of course the 725 is faster but i'm looking for something easier on head to overhead waves. My dealer already gave me a great feedback but i would like to know more. I'm just afraid that using the all ha range i will feel stepping back on my progression and fun.
Appreciate your help. thanks
For what? Winging? Then the 800 is a much better choice in those conditions. Defintely the best MA size i think. Rips with the 205 tail. My son used the 725 exclusively - now hes always on the 800. Exceptional winging wing.
i know this isnt winging but two days ago this was towing in on the 800/205. 
Greetings from the Armstrong Foils team (just received and email)
We're stoked to let you know that our new MA1750, 1475 and 625 foil sizes will be released publicly soon!
The 1750 and 1475 offer a boost to the range for larger riders and those seeking to push their lightwind winging and downwinding game. The 625 brings incredible speed and manoeuvrability to tow surfing and freestyle winging.
Select to expand quotemarco said..
Greetings from the Armstrong Foils team (just received and email)
We're stoked to let you know that our new MA1750, 1475 and 625 foil sizes will be released publicly soon!
The 1750 and 1475 offer a boost to the range for larger riders and those seeking to push their lightwind winging and downwinding game. The 625 brings incredible speed and manoeuvrability to tow surfing and freestyle winging.
Yeh he would have prefered the 625ma. He said in new zealand this was the ultimate towing foil.
Thanks for the answer Eppo, yes for winging. i'm 60 kg, your son is a good reference even though i'm far from hos level ??
