Ok....I've let you all think about this and this will be my last post on this..........yay say some 
But unless things change our State Rep will disappear, followed by AWA
I have been asked by too many people the same question….. Why is our sport run by 2 different groups, why is our sport in decline when it’s so much fun. What’s does WV do? and why can’t I go in that race?
I believe that our sport has been divided for too long....AWA looks after 1/2...... YA the other.
Currently, WV can’t figure out what it is ….a State body representing windsurfers and giving direction to the clubs…….or a Melbourne windsurfing club.
Given this confusion it’s impossible to find a direction for the sport, apply for grants, support its members and grow or at least maintain its membership numbers. The WV committee have done an amazing job given the lack of direction from the AWA and having no access to funding.
Try this
Benefits of AWA v YA
Why stay with Australian Windsurfing Association
Independent …choose our own path/direction
We are different to “Yachties” we sail for fun not results
Clubs run the events that we want
Like minded members…windsurfers/waves/freestyle
Why return into Yachting Australia
Can have the support of a larger organisation
Solid pathways to a career in sailing
Recognised training (WV uses this ATM)
Good insurance at the moment, 24/7 accident
Liability insurance when racing
Has buildings close to the beach, potential storage, meeting rooms ,social opportunities
Access to Federal, State and local government grants to grow your sport
Stronger voice in decisions that effect our sport
Kids programs with all the correct equipment
To many who say ..."Why don't you get onto WV committee and help out"? I'm trying help, but I will not join a committee that I believe is flawed in its design/structure with no access to funding/governance.
The voice that is missing in this thread is WV and although some of the committee have posted their personal views has been no answer to the Victorian Windsurfing public. Hopefully things change or it will be just me sailing around in my 90s 
Select to expand quoteOld Salty said..
Perhaps the Green Island nationals should be renamed the Foxy Nationals and perhaps Foxy now owns the AWA
ahh... I see where you are coming from... you volunteered your time and you credit card to organise a national competition. Thanks for your long standing backbone of support for our beloved sport.
Select to expand quotemathew said..Old Salty said..
Perhaps the Green Island nationals should be renamed the Foxy Nationals and perhaps Foxy now owns the AWA
ahh... I see where you are coming from... you volunteered your time and you credit card to organise a national competition. Thanks for your long standing backbone of support for our beloved sport.
Yes Mathew - agree wholeheartedly. When someone puts substantial amounts of their own money on the line to finance something good for the sport and goes unrecognised that is a severe mistake. People need to be made aware of what some people are doing to prop this sport up and it is more than just Foxy out there doing it. The other sad thing is that it looks like that Foxy has done this for two maybe three years and the AWA has not seen it a priority to refund him?? Begs the question???
Forums are always difficult to read meanings in statements and I am talking your last sentence to be sarcasm
After deciding I wanted to help this great sport 12 years ago I went along to two WV events and two WV committee meetings to decide that my energy was better spent elsewhere. With a team of great individuals IWC was formed. I have raised major issues of concern to the State body, like Parks Vic Windsurfing Zones on Port Phillip Bay when no one else was concerned and will continue to raise matters of importance in the future. If I am judged not to be a contributor to this sport then I do not know what else I can do.
Select to expand quoteOld Salty said..mathew said..Old Salty said..
Perhaps the Green Island nationals should be renamed the Foxy Nationals and perhaps Foxy now owns the AWA
ahh... I see where you are coming from... you volunteered your time and you credit card to organise a national competition. Thanks for your long standing backbone of support for our beloved sport.
Yes Mathew - agree wholeheartedly. When someone puts substantial amounts of their own money on the line to finance something good for the sport and goes unrecognised that is a severe mistake. People need to be made aware of what some people are doing to prop this sport up and it is more than just Foxy out there doing it. The other sad thing is that it looks like that Foxy has done this for two maybe three years and the AWA has not seen it a priority to refund him?? Begs the question???
Forums are always difficult to read meanings in statements and I am talking your last sentence to be sarcasm
After deciding I wanted to help this great sport 12 years ago I went along to two WV events and two WV committee meetings to decide that my energy was better spent elsewhere. With a team of great individuals IWC was formed. I have raised major issues of concern to the State body, like Parks Vic Windsurfing Zones on Port Phillip Bay when no one else was concerned and will continue to raise matters of importance in the future. If I am judged not to be a contributor to this sport then I do not know what else I can do.
While I am not familiar with your effort 12 yrs ago, I do remember the conversations at the WV meetings in August 2010 [ I remember the date because it is in the VW notes for those meetings ]. We had a discussion how WV wasn't doing enough for the members - at which point I highlighted the SpeedWeek / SpeedFortnight holidays, the VicWavesailing sub-committee, the many slalom races scheduled for that summer and other events. In particular you asked about beginners, at which point I suggested that you volunteer you own time and that you should hold it at Inverloch. [ Fast forward 9 months later, there was an Inverloch windsurfing club. ]
I do agree that what you have committed to the sport over the last few years, it fantastic. With your drive there has been a push to get the shops involved, lots of local events, and some competitive banter between WV and IWC. The work you have done has been great. [ It might have been nice if you worked with the existing ~ 27 people running the existing events, but even that technique can be seen as a positive, as it specifically gets even more volunteers and sponsorship involved with the sport. ]
However, your "Foxy Nationals" comment is highly insulting. If you are going to insult, be prepared to be insulted.... Or instead you could write constructive/positive comment on the work that Foxy put in.
Mmm yes. As I said, the AWA financials make interesting reading, no matter what the agreement between Ian Fox and the AWA regarding the Green Island Nats.
The maths is disturbing - whatever organisational issue one chooses to highlight.
Arguing about the relative praise individuals should receive misses the point. The AWA appears to be heading towards financial strife and it seems to be solely due to the last three years of the Green Island Nats. On the current trajectory, after the 2016 Green Island Nats the AWA will be insolvent on paper - whether it pays outstanding bills or not.
Correct me if Im wrong - anyone from AWA - but this is unsustainable. I hope I am wrong.
Not pointing fingers at anyone - just looking at raw numbers and I'm no accountant.
I agree with kato about WV. The structure is not right and the affiliation with AWA rather than a well resourced organisation like YA doesn't serve the interests of windsurfing all that well.
All very interesting I'm sure..... but it's getting old.
One thing I've learned in my 9 years of windsurfing, although 8 years too late is - don't take it too seriously, just enjoy it for what it is, windsurf when the conditions are right and you are able. If everyone just got back to enjoying the sport with mates maybe it would actually be more popular again. Whereas anyone looking at getting into windsurfing and coming across these recent discussions would actually think "WTF? [insert any other water sport] sounds more appealing!"
Select to expand quoteejmack said..
All very interesting I'm sure..... but it's getting old.
One thing I've learned in my 9 years of windsurfing, although 8 years too late is - don't take it too seriously, just enjoy it for what it is, windsurf when the conditions are right and you are able. If everyone just got back to enjoying the sport with mates maybe it would actually be more popular again. Whereas anyone looking at getting into windsurfing and coming across these recent discussions would actually think "WTF? [insert any other water sport] sounds more appealing!"
The topic is getting old? Or windsurfing is getting old?
Nah, we can walk and talk at the same time and hold a conversation for more than two days. 
Plus things don't 'just happen' by sailing with ya mates - nice as that concept may be. It takes volunteers, a strategy for development of the sport, donations, grants, community support, grass roots stuff etc. That passive strategy may have worked in the late 1980's when there would be windsurfers everywhere and it was on the tele - but not anymore.
Hearing the same thing time and time again is getting old... and windsurfing too I suppose.
Things do just happen by sailing with ya mates - you enjoy it!
I think people get the idea of what you, Kato, etc, etc. are saying. So maybe it's time to move onto something else.
Select to expand quoteejmack said..
Hearing the same thing time and time again is getting old... and windsurfing too I suppose.
Things do just happen by sailing with ya mates - you enjoy it!
I think people get the idea of what you, Kato, etc, etc. are saying. So maybe it's time to move onto something else.
No things don't "just happen". If we just sailed with our mates there would never be ANY organised competition, virtually NO quality tuition and NO lasting renewal in the sport. "Getting the idea" is not sufficient. Actions make a difference and before action, you need a conversation or direction.
This is called a CONVERSATION. It's not that hard to follow. It's not obligatory to partake in and it certainly is not illegal.
It's also 2015 so having this particular conversation here is perfectly rational.
I agree the topic is getting old. The best way to resolve this incessant topic is to sort out the problem.
I think what is sad is the "us and them attitude".
I know what a conversation is. Unfortunately, talking about it will only get you so far.
I have no issues with you having a conversation about anything here. However, it would be nice if we could have a choice in what we read. eg. opening the SHQ Sandy Point Cup weekend thread is a total surprise.
Evan, the "us and them" attitude is your perspective. It's not how I see this. The facts about WV/AWA are clear. What people do with those facts colours their perspective.
I've said my piece, loud and clear.
Things will happen now...
Yep - time for action. Time to roll up the sleeves, get out there and do something. Stay tuned.
You guys do realize that if you really wanted too, you could easily get elected onto the WV board, then put through the changes in WV you propose? It's not the machinery Kato, you could totally give it a go.
A non-profit no different to any other in constitution....... members vote, etc........ get elected, do your motions, job done......
AWA another story - I don't know anyone who's ever raced in their races, and really don't see the value for the usual weekend windsurfer to be concerned about it.
This hobby (sport) is so fragmented, you better of just having small clubs that represent the common interest, rather than trying to keep rebuilding to the past glory days of Bic 283's and RSX whatevers.............
IWC has always been a success based of the formula of dudes with no crazy specific gear, who get together for a good time on the water and be social / informal about it. People join clubs for people, not to be world champion of technically-gear-specific-narrow class racing......
WV has always been polarized by the success of IWC. It has a large membership base, and isn't connected to WV, which kind of throws WV into being void as a state body when half or more people are in IWC. So the structural effectiveness of WV as a state rep seems less so in that respect.
Perhaps its time to consolidate and rebuild based of the real grass roots of windsurfing (people with a wide range of gear who usually just bump, blast and jump).....
Have IWC as they are for the Southside regional area, WV renamed and rewrite constitution as a Melbourne or Bayside Windsurfing Club, or setup new Melbourne / Bayside Club and shut down WV? You already have a Wave Sailing Club.... so job done there.
Really need a census of who is out there in the windsurfing community. I’d have a chance to say more people on freeride boards and sails than another other genre….. and that’s your base right there. Racing, if any, should be informal and easy access. SHQ have always run the best freeride friendly distance race IMO with the Beacon race…. And ZU with their King of the Bay for jumping for anyone at any skill level giving it a crack.
To worry about the stores having a conflict of interest in races and events you're kidding yourself, this is windsurfing “a hobby”, not trading shares with insider information. The stores do a great job and are pretty much the unsung glue of windsurfing in VIC. Hell, spend a penny and buy gear from them and not chasing the cheapest thing somewhere else if you want the sport to be strong.
In all this discussion though, which I think is good, is that its not about key individuals (who have all put their heart and soul into it), or bad blood or who did what, but the sport (hobby).... I agree with the convention that the state and national bodies are not in line with what is happening on the ground...........and its no ones fault, its organically arrived here............ but still - discuss and keep thinking up ideas........... its overdue.
Select to expand quoteK Dog said..
You guys do realize that if you really wanted too, you could easily get elected onto the WV board, then put through the changes in WV you propose? It's not the machinery Kato, you could totally give it a go.
A non-profit no different to any other in constitution....... members vote, etc........ get elected, do your motions, job done......
AWA another story - I don't know anyone who's ever raced in their races, and really don't see the value for the usual weekend windsurfer to be concerned about it.
This hobby (sport) is so fragmented, you better of just having small clubs that represent the common interest, rather than trying to keep rebuilding to the past glory days of Bic 283's and RSX whatevers.............
IWC has always been a success based of the formula of dudes with no crazy specific gear, who get together for a good time on the water and be social / informal about it. People join clubs for people, not to be world champion of technically-gear-specific-narrow class racing......
WV has always been polarized by the success of IWC. It has a large membership base, and isn't connected to WV, which kind of throws WV into being void as a state body when half or more people are in IWC. So the structural effectiveness of WV as a state rep seems less so in that respect.
Perhaps its time to consolidate and rebuild based of the real grass roots of windsurfing (people with a wide range of gear who usually just bump, blast and jump).....
Have IWC as they are for the Southside regional area, WV renamed and rewrite constitution as a Melbourne or Bayside Windsurfing Club, or setup new Melbourne / Bayside Club and shut down WV? You already have a Wave Sailing Club.... so job done there.
Really need a census of who is out there in the windsurfing community. I’d have a chance to say more people on freeride boards and sails than another other genre….. and that’s your base right there. Racing, if any, should be informal and easy access. SHQ have always run the best freeride friendly distance race IMO with the Beacon race…. And ZU with their King of the Bay for jumping for anyone at any skill level giving it a crack.
To worry about the stores having a conflict of interest in races and events you're kidding yourself, this is windsurfing “a hobby”, not trading shares with insider information. The stores do a great job and are pretty much the unsung glue of windsurfing in VIC. Hell, spend a penny and buy gear from them and not chasing the cheapest thing somewhere else if you want the sport to be strong.
In all this discussion though, which I think is good, is that its not about key individuals (who have all put their heart and soul into it), or bad blood or who did what, but the sport (hobby).... I agree with the convention that the state and national bodies are not in line with what is happening on the ground...........and its no ones fault, its organically arrived here............ but still - discuss and keep thinking up ideas........... its overdue.
Great ideas and suggestions for action...
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Victoria/WV-2012-2013-event-calendar/
Not that long ago there was a lot going on in Vico but it was not well supported by the masses so we have probably ourselves to blame for lack of events now.
So I'm not sure how things will change with different club names and insurance policies if we don't support events, the Shq weekend was a classic example totally free but poorly supported for 1 reason or another, not enough wind forecast for some maybe, or not coming over for the event on principle!
Select to expand quoteJman said..
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Victoria/WV-2012-2013-event-calendar/
Not that long ago there was a lot going on in Vico but it was not well supported by the masses so we have probably ourselves to blame for lack of events now.
So I'm not sure how things will change with different club names and insurance policies if we don't support events, the Shq weekend was a classic example totally free but poorly supported for 1 reason or another, not enough wind forecast for some maybe, or not coming over for the event on principle!
Don't disagree Jman - Yeah I do remember all that activity back then, but the races never happened??? I remember a few times, but the weather didn't play its part.
For events to work you have to build up the social side first, BBQ's and gatherings etc, from there you get enough "glue" for people to be interested in turning up to events.... events on their own get a fickle response without some social binding aspect (IMO).
Looking at things differently, and being a devils advocate - I still think though that WV as a state body could change to a local club basis, this would take off the "heat" from expectations from other clubs for state representation (since they don't have the resources - lets be practical about this, and its just not needed; and they could just focus on building up windsurfing socially here in Melbourne). Again, the state body representation seems bunk in this current situation, and was more useful back in the glory days when you had lots of clubs and windsurfers, now the scene is very different...........
This would mean that WV, renamed as whatever, gets a fresh reboot, a fresh start, a new name, goal and purpose, harmonize with IWC and the shops on what the best way forward is on insurance for events, would give WV a change to breath, the history swept back in the past and you can move forward again....... without the constant historical flash backs 
Select to expand quoteJman said..
or not coming over for the event on principle!
or not wanting to tread on other people's turf
Select to expand quoteK Dog said..
For events to work you have to build up the social side first, BBQ's and gatherings etc, from there you get enough "glue" for people to be interested in turning up to events.... events on their own get a fickle response without some social binding aspect (IMO).
This was the point I was doing such a bad job of explaining in my previous posts.... isnt sailing with mates considered social? From the moment you arrive until the time you drive away. On a good day the places I sail get a VERY decent turnout, there's a lot of chatting before, during and after a session and even on occasion a BBQ or/and a beer. We don't need clubs for that right? From there, if enough people have an interest informal races could be decided on. The GPS free race idea comes to mind which has proven popular and successful in other states. No safety boats, volunteers, insurance issues, etc. to worry about. You compete if it's windy enough on the day and own a gps! Select to expand quoteOld Salty said..Jman said..
or not coming over for the event on principle!
or not wanting to tread on other people's turf
Im sorry Doug, not trying to start an argument, but why would anybody think certain people, clubs, organisation's etc. have more right to use those places than others?
Select to expand quoteejmack said..
K Dog said..
For events to work you have to build up the social side first, BBQ's and gatherings etc, from there you get enough "glue" for people to be interested in turning up to events.... events on their own get a fickle response without some social binding aspect (IMO).
This was the point I was doing such a bad job of explaining in my previous posts.... isnt sailing with mates considered social? From the moment you arrive until the time you drive away. On a good day the places I sail get a VERY decent turnout, there's a lot of chatting before, during and after a session and even on occasion a BBQ or/and a beer. We don't need clubs for that right? From there, if enough people have an interest informal races could be decided on. The GPS free race idea comes to mind which has proven popular and successful in other states. No safety boats, volunteers, insurance issues, etc. to worry about. You compete if it's windy enough on the day and own a gps!
Old Salty said..
Jman said..
or not coming over for the event on principle!
or not wanting to tread on other people's turf
Im sorry Doug, not trying to start an argument, but why would anybody think certain people, clubs, organisation's etc. have more right to use those places than others?
Evan, couldn't agree with your more. You don't need clubs for any of that, and I recon that is what most people want anyhow.
I was levering of your comments to say these qualities make a successful club........ usually people setup clubs because they have a large group of people doing all those things and they want the fun of formalizing it all, having a club name, location and to develop the sport a little for the community.
The elephant in the room is two clubs and an overseeing body AWA.
WV is a state club formed at a time when windsurfing was booming, yet probably represent Melbourne Bay windsurfing more now......
IWC do there own thing and can do so, but since IWC and WV are the main clubs in VIC, and due to the way both are setup people can't easily participate in both clubs events as we have all been discussing.................. that seems pretty redic...... considering "its just windsurfing".......
AWA - as my previous comments.... other than being an insurance provider? See no real reason for concern by the casual weekend windsurfer.........
Select to expand quoteejmack said..Old Salty said..Jman said..
or not coming over for the event on principle!
or not wanting to tread on other people's turf
Im sorry Doug, not trying to start an argument, but why would anybody think certain people, clubs, organisation's etc. have more right to use those places than others?
Hey Evan - got no bones with you or for that matter anyone else. life is too short for that
I know at certain times in IWC history it decided not to be part of events as we saw them as a major part of WV membership drives and did not want to impose ourselves on those situations. So what maybe construed as "not coming over for an event on principle" was more respecting WV's turf
Select to expand quote
K Dog
IWC do there own thing and can do so, but since IWC and WV are the main clubs in VIC, and due to the way both are setup people can't easily participate in both clubs events as we have all been discussing.................. that seems pretty redic...... considering "its just windsurfing".......
Anyone can turn up to an IWC event, sign on for the event as guest member, covered. May cost $2 for a snag and drink. Free parking too!
