I wonder if using the 'Windsurf' instead of 'Sail Board' argument would work. I'll kep it mind in case it does, although it is rediculous to wear a PFD at somewhere like Middleton. Maybe the people who come up with the crap should talk to those who actually do it. Idiots....

Technically, when I'm in my wetsuit, I can't even Sink into the water, is that treated as a personal floating device?

Good to see people are talking about this issue.
I'll leave you with it.

Cheers,
Pat Sparks

Spearsy said...

Yes the issue is Pat Sparks got bullied as a child, he now has a complex and feels a power trip when he tries to fine windsurfers and kiters for not wearing a PDF.

Dr Phil.

I'm sure Pat will keep a special eye out for you

Unfortunately Pat, due to your time constraints as you have stated, you chose to be direct and to the point. I think if you read and judge the responses you will quickly see that lots of people have taken you as being arrogant.

You state on your profile page that one of your interests is communicating with the windsurfing community.

Well, that you certainly did. Unfortunately not many saw it in a positive light and responded accordingly.

lots of scuba divers have died lately, maybe they should wear pfd's too!

now i would be interested to see if pat sparks actually read many of the replies, if he did then hopefully he can get the law changed to make it safer for us. i don't like being a criminal, but it sure beats being dead. but i doubt he has, probably just thinks we're all punks trying to be cool by not wearing pfd's.

"So rather than tell people 1 at a time I thought I'd tell a group" personally i think the third option of not telling anyone is by far the best.

throw the book at them all Pat! that will shut them up and take notice

hope some good sense will prevail and our law makers can ease up a bit, its always been about skill level, education and risk asessment.
my pre sail routine is to check the weather closely, try find someone to sail with or inform an interested party of where and when im heading out and check my gear for wear or breakages.
no one likes the idea of ditching your rig out the back and cling to or paddle in with your board but isnt that peace of mind enough for you pat because it is for my wife and kids.( have done this twice in 25 yrs )
helmets are a good idea too but thats another matter lol

Sailing in metro (Semaphore, Seacliff) is defined by the South Australian recreational boating safety handbook as "semi protected" (page 42)

http://www.sa.gov.au/upload/franchise/Transport,%20travel%20and%20motoring/Boating/Recreational%20handbook/SAFETY%20EQUIPTMENT.pdf

On Page 47 states: "Sailboards or kite boards require: within 400 m of shore, a PFD Type 1, 2 or 3, worn at all times. More than 400 m from shore, a PFD Type 1, worn at all times."

Yet, this web site states that Type 1's are "Not permitted for water skiing, aqua-planing and like activity."

www.sa.gov.au/subject/Transport%2C+travel+and+motoring/Boating+and+marine/Boat+and+marine+safety/Marine+safety+equipment/Personal+flotation+devices

Note: the above mentioned handbook does not state this.

Does the manual and web site imply that Windsurfing and Kitesurfing is banned when you sail further than 400m from the low tide mark ?

jn1 said...


Does the manual and web site imply that Windsurfing and Kitesurfing is banned when you sail further than 400m from the low tide mark ?

I would interpret this to mean that a PFD is not required when sailing farther than 400m from the low tide mark.

Hence patsparks would be unlawfully issuing fines to windsurfers/sailboarders.

jn1 said...

Sailing in metro (Semaphore, Seacliff) is defined by the South Australian recreational boating safety handbook as "semi protected" (page 42)

http://www.sa.gov.au/upload/franchise/Transport,%20travel%20and%20motoring/Boating/Recreational%20handbook/SAFETY%20EQUIPTMENT.pdf

On Page 47 states: "Sailboards or kite boards require: within 400 m of shore, a PFD Type 1, 2 or 3, worn at all times. More than 400 m from shore, a PFD Type 1, worn at all times."

Yet, this web site states that Type 1's are "Not permitted for water skiing, aqua-planing and like activity."

www.sa.gov.au/subject/Transport%2C+travel+and+motoring/Boating+and+marine/Boat+and+marine+safety/Marine+safety+equipment/Personal+flotation+devices

Note: the above mentioned handbook does not state this.

Does the manual and web site imply that Windsurfing and Kitesurfing is banned when you sail further than 400m from the low tide mark ?

They do not consider sailboarding as aqua-planing.

2qik4u said...

legless said...

2qik4u said...

The whole Legislation say's nothing about windsurfer's so i guess were exempt...
i don't use a sailboard i windsurf!!!!

A PFD 2 is suitable for use for sports such as water skiing, sail boarding, kite boarding and sailing dinghies.

PDF 3 These are designed for high-speed water sports such as water skiing, aqua-planing, operating PWC and sail boarding.


PDF 1 Not permitted for water skiing, aqua-planing and like activity.

which part do you not understand!!!!!!!

As I said it dose not say windsurfing/sailboarding. It is referring to motorized water sport like water skiing and aqua planing.......you are jumping to conclusions assuming it includes sailboarding.

"aqua-planing"

Noun 1. aquaplane - a board that is pulled by a speedboat as a person stands on it and skims over the top of the water

Verb 1. aquaplane - rise up onto a thin film of water between the tires and road so that there is no more contact with the road"the car aquaplaned"

Verb 2. aquaplane -skim, plane - travel on the surface of water
(Individual Sports & Recreations / Swimming, Water Sports & Surfing) to ride on an aquaplane

intr.v. aq?ua?planed, aq?ua?plan?ing, aq?ua?planes
To ride on such a board.

2qik4u the Recreational Boating Unit say I am right and you can wear a Australian compliant yoke for sailboarding. You were reading too much in to the regulations as I suspected.Wearing a yoke also overcomes the issues with the flotation causing you to get trapped under your sail. It might be a good idea to wear a helmet so you don't get knocked out and can activate the inflation tag if you need too.

It pays to ask before jumping to conclusions as you have.

see email from Recreational Boating Unit below.



Gareth

My apologies for not responding earlier.
If your lifejacket complies with the Australian standards and there is an Australian standard marking on your jacket you will be able to use it for sailboarding.

Regards
Recreational Boating Unit

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
The information contained in this e-mail message may be confidential, and may also be the subject of privileged or public interest immunity. If you have received this e-mail in error please telephone (08) 8343 2222. This e-mail and any attached files is subject to copyright. However, unless it has been expressly forbidden in this e-mail, recipients are permitted to forward or circulate this e-mail (unaltered and with this disclaimer) to any other party. No liability for loss or damage resulting from any action taken or not taken on reliance on this e-mail and any attached files is accepted. This e-mail and any attached files should be scanned to detect viruses.

From: Gareth Leggett [mailto:gareth_leggett@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 12:34 PM
To: DTEI:Recreational Boating Unit
Subject: RE: PFD type 1 yoke

To whom it may concern,

Sorry for the repeat but I just realized I had not put Type before the 1 which may have led to the confusion.

Thanks for your reply. I was planning to wear a PFD Type 1 Storm rider yoke made by PFD Australia https://pfdsales.com.au/shop/?id=15.

Your website says
"PFD 1 Lifejacket. Not permitted for water skiing, aqua-planing and like activity."
So what I want to know is dose that include sailboarding or not?

From what you said in your email in unprotected waters only a PFD Type 1 is acceptable. So I assume a certified PFD Type 1 Yoke would meet this requirement.

there might be if all this freestyle mumbo jumbo continues to grow!!! everyone get a freestyleboard and see who is the first to break a bone!

legless said...

From: DTEI:Recreational Boating Unit (DTEI.RecreationalBoatingUnit@sa.gov.au)
Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2011 11:24:53 PM
To: gareth_leggett@hotmail.com (gareth_leggett@hotmail.com)

Mr Leggett

You have not stimpulated what type of yoke PFD you may be intending to use when sailing

In protected waters in South Australia an approved PFD type 1, Type 2 of Type 3 must be worn, semi protected waters and PFD type 1 is to be worn, unprotected waters PFD type 1 for vessels less than 8 metres long.

For vessels 8-15 metres long in protected waters PFD type 1, type 2 or type 3 must be worn and in semi-protected and unprotected waters a PFD type 1 should be worn.

You may wish to visit our website www.sa.gov.au/boatingmarine for any other information of recreational boating in South Australia.

Regards
Recreational Boating Unit


Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
The information contained in this e-mail message may be confidential, and may also be the subject of privileged or public interest immunity. If you have received this e-mail in error please telephone (08) 8343 2222. This e-mail and any attached files is subject to copyright. However, unless it has been expressly forbidden in this e-mail, recipients are permitted to forward or circulate this e-mail (unaltered and with this disclaimer) to any other party. No liability for loss or damage resulting from any action taken or not taken on reliance on this e-mail and any attached files is accepted. This e-mail and any attached files should be scanned to detect viruses.

#5928489, File #2011/00400/01

From: Gareth Leggett [mailto:gareth_leggett@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 7:31 AM
To: DTEI:Enquiries Administrator
Subject: PFD1 yoke

To whom it may concern,

I wanted to find out it a Australian certified PFD1 yoke would meet the requirement for wear a PFD while sailboarding in South Australia.

cheers

Gareth Leggett

Required safety equipment vessels less than 8 metres long

• One approved PFD Type 1 for each person
on board.
• Bucket/s with line attached, or bilge pump/s
sufficient to drain each compartment of the
vessel.
• Fire bucket.*
• If the vessel has an engine or cooking
facilities, one fire extinguisher.
• Suitable anchor with cable.
• Waterproof and buoyant torch or lantern.
• Two hand-held red flares and two hand-held
orange smoke signals.
• If the vessel is less than 6 m long, a pair of
paddles or oars, or other means of auxiliary
propulsion.

Gezzz thats a lot of gear

legless said...


2qik4u the Recreational Boating Unit say I am right and you can wear a Australian compliant yoke for sailboarding. You were reading too much in to the regulations as I suspected.Wearing a yoke also overcomes the issues with the flotation causing you to get trapped under your sail. It might be a good idea to wear a helmet so you don't get knocked out and can activate the inflation tag if you need too.

It pays to ask before jumping to conclusions as you have.

see email from Recreational Boating Unit below.



Gareth

My apologies for not responding earlier.
If your lifejacket complies with the Australian standards and there is an Australian standard marking on your jacket you will be able to use it for sailboarding.

Regards
Recreational Boating Unit

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
The information contained in this e-mail message may be confidential, and may also be the subject of privileged or public interest immunity. If you have received this e-mail in error please telephone (08) 8343 2222. This e-mail and any attached files is subject to copyright. However, unless it has been expressly forbidden in this e-mail, recipients are permitted to forward or circulate this e-mail (unaltered and with this disclaimer) to any other party. No liability for loss or damage resulting from any action taken or not taken on reliance on this e-mail and any attached files is accepted. This e-mail and any attached files should be scanned to detect viruses.

From: Gareth Leggett [mailto:gareth_leggett@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 12:34 PM
To: DTEI:Recreational Boating Unit
Subject: RE: PFD type 1 yoke

To whom it may concern,

Sorry for the repeat but I just realized I had not put Type before the 1 which may have led to the confusion.

Thanks for your reply. I was planning to wear a PFD Type 1 Storm rider yoke made by PFD Australia https://pfdsales.com.au/shop/?id=15.

Your website says
"PFD 1 Lifejacket. Not permitted for water skiing, aqua-planing and like activity."
So what I want to know is dose that include sailboarding or not?

From what you said in your email in unprotected waters only a PFD Type 1 is acceptable. So I assume a certified PFD Type 1 Yoke would meet this requirement.

From: DPTI:Recreational Boating Unit
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 11:02 AM
Subject: FW: Personal Flotation Device for Windsurfing Legalisation

The requirements for windsurfing are on page 47 of the South Australian Recreational Boating safety which can be download from our website: www.sa.go.vau/boatingmarine and in the handbook the terminology used is "sailboards".

Windsurfing is not considered to be in the same category as water-skiing or similar and as such a PFD1 is acceptable. It is recommended however that a "Mae West" style is not used as it is not practical, but the vest type is OK. Also an inflatable type is not recommended, if it manually inflates there is no general buoyancy in the water until activated and this is not practical for those that spend some time in the water rather than on the board. The auto inflate type are also not suitable as once inflated they become cumbersome and if deflated can't easily be reinflated.

Should it be determined that windsurfing is a high speed activity then changes may be considered.

Regards
Recreational Boating Unit

#5980993, File #2011/00400/01