Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

Where can i find help choosing a GPS to buy?

Reply
Created by salt > 9 months ago, 17 Dec 2009
yoyo
WA, 1646 posts
24 Dec 2009 4:47PM
Thumbs Up

Yeah, I think I'll do a test at Perry Lakes or another fixed dist place with several different gps's for a definitive answer.

I had my Navi on do not record below 2 last time.

mathew
QLD, 2143 posts
26 Dec 2009 8:32PM
Thumbs Up

yoyo said...
When gps were first used for speedsailing the Dutch guys had to use 2 second periods for the max speed because the 1 sec was way to spiky on their Garmins Gekos. After noticing that my own Garmin speeds seemed to come in discrete steps I decided to do some tests myself and found that the trackpoints that the software showed was rounded up to the nearest 2.4m N-S and 1.85m E-W. After emailing and discussing with Manfred ****hs (GPS-Speed) Mal Wright (Realspeed) and Yann (GPS Action Replay ) it was clear that it was and issue with garmin rounding up the data it stored in their log and not the software. After many emails and phone calls to Garmin and several denials finally a tecky there confirmed that is exactly what Garmin do and they had no intention of changing as most user didn't need the accuracy we required.. although there were some models that stored the full data like the Edge which was promoted as a cycling unit so had similar requirement to speedsailing (speeds and distances).


Indeed - wasn't it sailquik who first observed it, and gave it the name "grid effect"?

Of course there are other GPS's that dont suffer this problem, but the Navi's are interesting in particular, as the company decided that the *small* speedsailing market was big enough to justify spending some time/money on (either directly or inderectly through Tom Chalko) -> as a reuslt, most of us here use Navi's.


Whilst this is not a true walking test it does show the differences in errors. Yesterday my gps was stationary for some time. For 12 minutes it had exactly zero movement. Yet the track point data says it moved 170m over those 720 seconds (and this was with the full, non rounded trackpoint 10X more accurate than the Etrex/foretrex etc). ~ 24cm error average each second. Meanwhile the doppler data was only 27m movement for the same time period or only 3.75cm error for each second recorded.

In the case of your walk. it probably took you about 3 hours. The accumulated error could easily be over 2 km if each measurement is 20cm more inaccurate than doppler.

In the image below the trackpoint speed error is black whilst the the green one is doppler.


This technicque is one of the many techniques that the tech-team has used to test the various GPS's. Another would be to find a straight strech of road, then with say 10 GPS' sitting on the dashboard -> drive that road, then compare results between each GPS. Or you can sit those same 10 GPS's on in a open field for 72 hrs, finally comparing results -> this should show some of the atmospheric effects that can occur.

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
26 Dec 2009 7:24PM
Thumbs Up

mathew said...
Another would be to find a straight strech of road, then with say 10 GPS' sitting on the dashboard -> drive that road, then compare results between each GPS. Or you can sit those same 10 GPS's on in a open field for 72 hrs, finally comparing results -> this should show some of the atmospheric effects that can occur.


Neither of these tests will affect the problem that I think I found, which I think only appears at very low speed (but not stationary!)

At normal windsurfing speeds, doppler and trackpoint distance are usually within 1% of each other, on my bushwalk they were out by around 10%.

10% is HUGE!!!

All I'm saying is that perhaps the NAVI isn't the best tool for one specific job, which is, figuring out how far away you are from the next hut on a bushwalk. For speed sailing, there's no doubt that the NAVI is the best tool for the job.

sailquik
VIC, 6168 posts
26 Dec 2009 10:37PM
Thumbs Up

mathew said...


Indeed - wasn't it Sailquik who first observed it, and gave it the name "grid effect"?


That is my recollection as well.



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk


"Where can i find help choosing a GPS to buy?" started by salt