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Demon Design
Demon Design
5 posts
5 posts
13 Oct 2011 8:02am
Ben Severne said...
As for innovative materials, I've developed sailcloth that is half the weight of monofilm, colourful, and strong enough to deal with the conditions in OUR backyard. (OK, I'd progressed a bit beyond the backyard when I developed e5 sailcloth - I'll give you that. But without the backyard days there wouldn't be any 3kg wavesails... we'd all be on 5kg Nerds and Euros)



hmmmmm....... we were building and selling windsurf sails made from lightweight technora (amongst other fibers) laminates in 1993 and kevlar versions of the cloth in the 1980,s............. In fact Technora sailcloth after first being introduced in the early 90's was dropped as a fiber by Dimension Polyant and reintroduced in the early noughties. I had a technora wave sail with me for extended stays in Taranaki in 1993, that one weighed in at 2.4kg for a 5.2.

Since 1984 we have specialized in building innovative windsurf sails form lightweight laminates, we even used to be "unfashionable" becasue people used to think we should be building sails from monofilm... as "thats the cutting edge fabric", that was a laugh!! remember this was the early 90,s and we were building 7.5 race sails that weighed 3kg, with 6 battens, 5 cams and lasted 5 years+ of racing use.......

As to 3kg wave sails... we havnt built a 5m wave sail heavier than that, ever, and we started in 1984...... :-)

here is one of our latest wave sail protos, 3 batten, FULL WIND RANGE wave sail, laminate construction, superlight. Radically different load path design.
The innovation in this sail isnt the material( the laminate styles have been around for 20 years) its the USE of the materials....




anyone interested can check them out at the websites, www.demonsails.co.uk and www.5-oceans.com

cheers all

matthew
Carantoc
Carantoc
WA
7269 posts
WA, 7269 posts
13 Oct 2011 9:43am
The greatest innovation is surely the internet forum.

Not the introduction of the forum itself but the use of it.

Where else could a simple question of 'what is this sail, and is it called a 'nerd', be answered with both a xenophobic critic of the european fashion trends of the 1980s and a summary of the history of armid plastic technology.

I say 'all hail Laurie' creator of the modern universe and the world as we know it.


Al Planet
Al Planet
TAS
1548 posts
TAS, 1548 posts
13 Oct 2011 5:06pm
Demon Design said...










Awesome that sail has a whole "De Stijl" vibe.

Is there a consiracy here, I have never seen the British magazines test Demon Design sails. Its always Gaastra,Gun, North, Simmer and all the other Euro Brands. No point winning a war if you are going to let your press be run by those damn continentals.
chophopper
chophopper
WA
44 posts
WA, 44 posts
13 Oct 2011 3:52pm
Funniest read in ages, thanks to all, you made my day
CJW
CJW
NSW
1731 posts
CJW CJW
NSW, 1731 posts
13 Oct 2011 9:23pm
Demon Design said...
hmmmmm....... we were building and selling windsurf sails made from lightweight technora (amongst other fibers) laminates in 1993 and kevlar versions of the cloth in the 1980,s............. In fact Technora sailcloth after first being introduced in the early 90's was dropped as a fiber by Dimension Polyant and reintroduced in the early noughties. I had a technora wave sail with me for extended stays in Taranaki in 1993, that one weighed in at 2.4kg for a 5.2.

Since 1984 we have specialized in building innovative windsurf sails form lightweight laminates, we even used to be "unfashionable" becasue people used to think we should be building sails from monofilm... as "thats the cutting edge fabric", that was a laugh!! remember this was the early 90,s and we were building 7.5 race sails that weighed 3kg, with 6 battens, 5 cams and lasted 5 years+ of racing use.......

As to 3kg wave sails... we havnt built a 5m wave sail heavier than that, ever, and we started in 1984...... :-)

here is one of our latest wave sail protos, 3 batten, FULL WIND RANGE wave sail, laminate construction, superlight. Radically different load path design.
The innovation in this sail isnt the material( the laminate styles have been around for 20 years) its the USE of the materials....



I think the main reason the windsurfing industry embraced monofilm was because it has good properties for type of loading a windsurfing sail sees it it is retardedly cheap compared to the high end yacht fabrics. I'm sure if North put their mind to it and got their 3DL dudes to pump out some windsurfing sails they'd be insanely light, they'd also be insanely expensive. I have no idea with a 3Di windsurfing sail would cost but i'd has a guess it would be a metric shirtload; the cloth weight/load they achieve with that stuff is insane.

The use of exotic sail cloth in mainstream brand wave sails is pretty limited, only Severne really comes to mind and i'd say the main reason is cost. Like yourself there are boutique brands that have been doing it a long while but these brands don't really get the exposure of the big brands and so go unnoticed no matter how good their product. However, there seems to be somewhat of a trend to reduce the weights of wave sails atm so we might yet see exotic cloths start to play more and more of a role within the big brands. This can only be a good thing, my new 5.9 S1 weighs less than my old 4.7 from another brand.
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23651 posts
WA, 23651 posts
13 Oct 2011 6:40pm
I'm waiting for ben to come back after Mr demon claims he invented using technora cloths

Demon Design
Demon Design
5 posts
5 posts
13 Oct 2011 7:32pm
My apologies, it wasnt 1993, it was 1994/95 that we first started using lightweight Technora laminates commercially, and it was 1995 in Taranaki, had to check the photo album for the dates, it is a long time ago now....

Rosobot
Rosobot
VIC
384 posts
VIC, 384 posts
13 Oct 2011 10:38pm
OMG you are so Cornish! I could tell from the reply that was you Matt! Good to see you are still building sails! There is no doubt the Demon race sails from the 90's killed it in the UK, but the S1 is amazing!

Hope you are still rocking out in the SW!
barn
barn
WA
2960 posts
WA, 2960 posts
13 Oct 2011 7:50pm
I should point out the 'innovations' iDOO and the Suspension Extension posted above was just a joke..

Demon Design said...


hmmmmm....... we were building and selling windsurf sails made from lightweight technora (amongst other fibers) laminates in 1993 and kevlar versions of the cloth in the 1980,s.............


I have to ask, it sounds all so good, why haven't I ever heard of Demon Design? What gives?? I'd like to think I've been around the windsurfing block..

So I just went on FB and asked a UK mate, and I quote..

yeah i've heard of them
for longboard racing


And it goes on, wont report the rest hahah.. My mate is more contemptuous than I am!.. (He also sails for North/fanatic)

-------------


BTW,
I never realized so many people read this forum, I thought it was just me, Mark, and a few others.. I secretly hope some Big shot North executive read my North ranting..




Demon Design
Demon Design
5 posts
5 posts
13 Oct 2011 8:11pm
Rosobot said...

OMG you are so Cornish! I could tell from the reply that was you Matt! Good to see you are still building sails! There is no doubt the Demon race sails from the 90's killed it in the UK, but the S1 is amazing!

Hope you are still rocking out in the SW!


hello Tom! long time!!! hope you are well and yes i guess i am just a little bit Cornish...... but kinda hard to drag myself away from it....


and Barn, yes Demon Design has long been well known for Longboard sails, we do build very good ones.
Interestingly there is a lot of cross fertilisation between wave sails and longboard sails. Our first VG5 designs ( a sail which dominated longboard racing in the uk for a good long while in the 90's) were inspired by a wave sail design that we did for Rachel Medd, who was a Div 1 world champion and went on to be a pwa( or whatever it was called then) wave sailor.

and it works the other way to, the 3 batten wave sail in the pictures above is actually a derivative of the Demon Design VG7 longboard sail ( which has won the uk racing 2 years running). The 3 batten sail was a trial to see if we could get the same load paths working in a relatively lower aspect manouvre oriented sail, and it seems to be working.

as to why you havnt heard of us, small company, work to full capacity, dont advertise, always sold on word of mouth, too busy making sails to do advertising, that kind of thing i guess?

Anyway, we do wave sails under a different branding now, lots of pics of the sails in use in Cornwall on the blog, worth a look if anything in Europe is.....:-) 5-oceans.blogspot.com/


and to keep it on topic, my friend has a north "HERD" least thats what he calls it!
gregc
gregc
VIC
1299 posts
VIC, 1299 posts
14 Oct 2011 12:30am
Fj yes the short board but pretty sure that was wwwaaayyy before the thruster. Think McTav is credited with that one for surfboards. Still thinking that the last monumental leap was the thruster design in boards anyway.
Stuthepirate
Stuthepirate
SA
3591 posts
SA, 3591 posts
14 Oct 2011 12:21am
^^^What about the Lazor Zap

Don't know why this never took off
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23651 posts
WA, 23651 posts
13 Oct 2011 10:08pm
^^^ Stu is that one of those things they stand on and hold a kite ???
Stuthepirate
Stuthepirate
SA
3591 posts
SA, 3591 posts
14 Oct 2011 1:03am
^^^Mid 80's Cheyne Horan surf board. Blamed for him not winning world title. Though i could see it having a renaissance in that area for some reason
barn
barn
WA
2960 posts
WA, 2960 posts
14 Oct 2011 4:54am
barn said...

gregc said...

Yea pretty sure not under any rocks Barney just rattle off the colorful sails and boards from let's say 05 to 10 will be a short list I reckon. Wait I'll start it............ Nah got nothing. Strangely this season we have north and Pryde so far, will there be others or will we return to see through sails and white boards. Please god let's not



Checked SMH this morning to see in WW3 had started overnight, and my homework was done for me!! Windsurfing, front page! Looks like an story on colourful boards from 2003?






Not quite, just the sh!test fence innovation the history of fences innovations (there really hasn't been any innovations in fences)... But check the caption, 'colourfully painted surfboards(?)'..





BenKirk
BenKirk
NSW
600 posts
NSW, 600 posts
14 Oct 2011 9:18am
Demon Design said...

Rosobot said...

OMG you are so Cornish! I could tell from the reply that was you Matt! Good to see you are still building sails! There is no doubt the Demon race sails from the 90's killed it in the UK, but the S1 is amazing!

Hope you are still rocking out in the SW!


hello Tom! long time!!! hope you are well and yes i guess i am just a little bit Cornish...... but kinda hard to drag myself away from it....


and Barn, yes Demon Design has long been well known for Longboard sails, we do build very good ones.
Interestingly there is a lot of cross fertilisation between wave sails and longboard sails. Our first VG5 designs ( a sail which dominated longboard racing in the uk for a good long while in the 90's) were inspired by a wave sail design that we did for Rachel Medd, who was a Div 1 world champion and went on to be a pwa( or whatever it was called then) wave sailor.

and it works the other way to, the 3 batten wave sail in the pictures above is actually a derivative of the Demon Design VG7 longboard sail ( which has won the uk racing 2 years running). The 3 batten sail was a trial to see if we could get the same load paths working in a relatively lower aspect manouvre oriented sail, and it seems to be working.

as to why you havnt heard of us, small company, work to full capacity, dont advertise, always sold on word of mouth, too busy making sails to do advertising, that kind of thing i guess?

Anyway, we do wave sails under a different branding now, lots of pics of the sails in use in Cornwall on the blog, worth a look if anything in Europe is.....:-) 5-oceans.blogspot.com/


and to keep it on topic, my friend has a north "HERD" least thats what he calls it!


Having grown up in the UK, I always wondered who made those raceboard sails. Now I know!

There would be loads of sail/board brands from SW/S England (well at least there were) that you'll never have heard of here but were making great products. Vit-Sea, K-Bay (were they the guys that proved how strong their boards were by hitting them with a hammer?), Lodey all come to mind. I also had a "tour" of the factory down in Penzance that made boards - no idea of the name. Don't quote me on any of the above, we're talking 10+ years ago, so spelling may be a little out!

Those wavesails almost look superimposed - I like them!
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