Sailing rules: Coming in on a WA seabreeze you are on starboard tack so you have right of way over those coming out.

BUT traditional wave rules like Ho'okipa: if you are on a proper wave ie: riding it, not just fluffing about......... the guy heading out has right of way as he needs to get out thru the break and may need to bear away to pick up speed, or cut upwind to avoid the nasty bit in case he gets trashed.
The flip side is if the guy inside is planing out and has lots of control so he can easily go upwind or downwind , he should not enforce his right of way such that it fks up your wave ride

Now that is hard cos at most metro spots it would vary

EG1: at Dutchies the wave is 50m offshore and it is small so the guy going out will never get trashed.... he is planing and it is small and mushy
The sailor coming in should always have right of way as he is on starboard PLUS if he's on a wave he has right of way. The guy going out, having an optimal jump, well too bad for him, he gives way to those coming in


EG2: at Scarbs or that other good riding spot - it is a beach break and it can sometimes be hard to get out. YES the rider coming in has right of way as he is on starboard tack and is riding, but he needs to let the poor schlogger who is not yet planing hold his line or move up/down wind so he can get out

EG3: kiters rules are that heading out always has right of way as they need to get off the beach quick while flying a kite and trying to get feet onto a board at same time. Well, they tell me that anyway so correct me if I'm wrong?
But we as windsurfers can't gybe in 100mm of water and may need to avoid the reef. The inside gybe for us (when we are on starboard coming in, so have right of way) will always be hard and conflict with their "going out has right of way" rule so just stay away and be aware noobs will line you up if ur close to shore even though you have right of way under sailing rules

P.C_simpson said...

Also don't gybe onto a forming wave when someone is already on it, even if your upwind, thats just being a snake..

No, it is called "kiting"

Hooksey said...

P.C_simpson said...

Also don't gybe onto a forming wave when someone is already on it, even if your upwind, thats just being a snake..

but this would be OK if you are down-wind of him ?

[}:)][}:)][}:)]

hell no. That sounds a bit like kiting also
unless waaaay downwind

Or unless you can guarantee he is going to ride backside

Ya know Mark, as much as you accuse that other guy of trolling, that really is getting old.

Mark _australia said...

P.C_simpson said...

Also don't gybe onto a forming wave when someone is already on it, even if your upwind, thats just being a snake..

No, it is called "kiting"

Mark _australia said...


The flip side is if the guy inside is planing out and has lots of control so he can easily go upwind or downwind , he should not enforce his right of way such that it fks up your wave ride

WUT???

Rules are sposed to be uniform... Sailor heading out through the break always has right of way.

These are maritime rules, anybody turning has to give way.. If there is an injury and it goes to the courts, then it gets down to the maritime rules..

Also.

What If the wave is closing out, and he/she is fully planing on the way out and there is one unbroken section left and the guy waveriding decides to hit the same lip??

Plus when you're wave riding you're unpredictable, How is the sailior heading out supposed to know where to give way? (this goes back to the turning craft gives way)

Also the guy/babe heading out, If planing has just as much right to hit the wave where they want because they want to jump off it.. Actually they have more right cause jumping is better than riding, and you normally only have one shot at a jump...


Correct me if anybody believes I'm wrong..

Sailor heading out through the break always has right of way

for the rest of us that can never remember what starboard is just remember: "if your right hand is the one closest to the mast you have right of way."

However, you should never insist on it. Always respect others they might not be as good a sailor as you

FlickySpinny said...

saltiest1 said...

Even if the other person is a douche and in the wrong, if you have the option to take avoiding action and you do not take that option and collision occurs, you are partially at fault in the eyes of the law.

If I understand correctly if you have a stack, even if you had right of way, you will always be found as guilty as the douche. Why? Because you had the option of taking action to avoid collision but you chose not to. In other words you have the right of way but are still partially at fault. This defeats the purpose of having the rule.

I think what he is getting at Mark,
is your interfering with his jumping off that wave when you are on it,cause he has right of way to charge out full speed and launch off the lip.


oops,forgot to quote....see below

... And what happens if you're riding the wave, not looking at the punters coming out (who have a very clear view of where you are)?

This rule applies pretty much to every situation:
"The vessel who is more maneuverable gives way to the one that is less able to change direction".

It covers whether you give way to learners, whether you give way to swimmers, whether you give way to someone on the wave, whether you give way to someone coming out through the channel, whether you give way to big fat boats, etc.

The corollary to the one true rule is "If only one of you can see that there's going to be a collision, then that person should give way".

All the other rules you read about are just special cases of the one true rule.

Mark _australia said...



I'm just stating the original ROW rules from Ho'okipa. Locals may vary...

Yeah I saw that after a quick google, and yes I agree that at Ho'okipa this makes sense, Ho'okipa is famous enough to make its own road rules.. I'm worried that all this gray area about the discretion coming down to the person riding the wave..

Mark _australia said...


But if he is planing the guy heading out should not deliberately modify his line to hit the section for a perfect jump if a rider is on that wave.

Yeah this is a better way of putting it, The guy heading out, If planing should make a course and stick to it, and he should not have to change this course for anybody on a wave..

My problem was with the moment you're planing you relinquish you're right of way to the guy on the wave, which is how I 1st read it!

..

Just to make it more confusing: Where do kiters stand?

As far as I know the general rule is motorboat gives way to sailing boat gives way to windsurfers gives way to kiters? Or are kiters on the same level as windsurfers?

(I know that commercial crafts have always right of way)

lotofwind said...

Mark _australia said...

As soon as you are at a spot where the rides are lower quality, should jumping take precedence? Probably should....... but then we are in the situation of local rules and agro starts

In windsurfing are people who jump the lower quality riders?????

No - riding is surfing the wave heading in, and jumping is jumping on the way out.
My point was the Ho'okipa rules are for spots where the riding is so damn good that it is taken to be the more important activity at that spot - so the rule is you don't spoil somebody's ride
At a sloppy wave with 500m of runup then maybe jumping the more important atcivity

Mecky said...

Just to make it more confusing: Where do kiters stand?

As far as I know the general rule is motorboat gives way to sailing boat gives way to windsurfers gives way to kiters? Or are kiters on the same level as windsurfers?

(I know that commercial crafts have always right of way)

I thought it was

aircraft give way to motorboat gives way to sailing boat give way to swimmer

in the case i was in, i was about 30 metres out behind the break, and we were both only doing about 10 kn at the most. WAS happily plodding along back to the line up.....

sounds good then. i will load a water pistol full of baby oil and prepare for retalliation next time.
1 squirt at the feet. problem over.