How about this for additional items to be added to the definition of a sailing vessel:

It must be able to maintain positive buoyancy whilst at rest, with the full complement of crew on board, with all crew members remaining above the waterline.

The "sail" must connect both directly to the hull of the vessel, and directly to a solid mast. The "sail" must not fly higher than the top of the mast.

To be eligible for a speed record, the vessel must be able to take off under its own power, from rest, and reach that speed.

This would disqualify kites, gliders, space shuttles re-entering from orbit, solar sails, and those ultra small speed sailboards.

Face it, L'Hydroptere is a freaking yacht. A kite is not a yacht, a 60L sailboard is not a yacht.

lalalamort said...

DL said...

[b][i]It must be able to maintain positive buoyancy whilst at rest, with the full complement of crew on board, with all crew members remaining above the waterline

would disqualify anyone with a board with less litreage than their body weight, which would be pretty much everyone that does speed sailing, i would imagine

Only because there hasn't been enough lateral thinking in that area - people just go for smaller boards in higher wind because it's the most logical solution. But how about designing bigger boards which can be used at those speeds? Narrow longboards with channels instrad of fins, perhaps?? Just thinking out loud...

Nuff said .......... spinnakers are accepted looks pretty kite looking to me, load of crap the lot of it so typical.
I wonder how fast kiting could actually go if they even invested half as much coin as they did with yellowpages ?

Rad Lad said...


To add further to the controversy, it seems nobody can really explain why. The ISAF say a kite is not a sail. However their definition of a sail is:

A sail is any type of surface intended to generate thrust by being placed in a wind-in essence a vertically-oriented wing.

This is not a sail boat:



I guess the ISAF is a bit ****ty about the result. Really kites and windsurfers can only ever claim outright speed records. They'll never break any other sailing record.

a sail generates lift the centre board or fin stops the side way movement and a forward thrust is made , up wind sailing , ithink the kite does not generate thrust itj ust gets pulled along by the wind

Do they beat into the wind how high do they point

A kite can point at least as high as a windsurfer without a centreboard can.

Works on the same principle. Instead of a fin, the base of the kite board is the lifting surface...

(it's still not sailing though )

glider tow ropesare very stretchy,usually the stuff skiers use, it wouldstretch on initial take off.
How about a landyacht on a beach towing a skier in the water. it actually works, but weve never thought of it as the kid in the water being a sailor. actually got to 80kph doing it on Le Grande Beach ,Esperance

Mark _australia said...
Well there you have it. It is conceivable that my land yacht here could bust 50 knots. the bloke being towed could break 50 or even 60.
Now if KITING counts (stand on a board, towed by a kite) then the above has to count (standing on a board, towed by a wind powered land yacht).

That should be enough to end the debate: kiting must be excluded, as to allow it would open the floodgates to all sorts of silly contraptions

What do you call yellow pages? It's hardly a 'functional' craft for general sailing. It was built for and it's entire ethos is purely speed sailing, in one direction mind you, which in my opinion puts it in the 'silly contraption' category. Have you seen some of the other contraptions past/current to have a crack at this record? A kite is right in the non silly corner as far as i'm concerned.

Having classes is a valid idea but there's something less glamorous about saying you're the fastest windsurfer/kiter etc rather than the fastest 'sailor' on the planet. This would lead to an 'open' class, including the aforementioned 'silly contraptions' and low and behold kites. In my opinion a kite is 'sailing' as much as a windsurfer is. Sailing as I define it is just using the wind, however you may harness it be it a kite or a sail, to propel yourself across the water. This does not include being towed by gliders, helicopters, land yachts etc.

Hence I consider a kite to currently hold the world speed sailing record, like the windsurfer before it and the silly contraption (yellow pages) before it. I think people are just really really pissed off that a humble kite was the first to break the 50kt holy grail, something that people have put massive amounts of time and money into for years.

The most impressive record to me is actually that of yellow pages because it's a pure example of engineering and efficiency. It's record was 47ks or so was set in about 18kts of wind. THAT is efficient. Antone set it in about 60kts or something crazy and the kites set it in about 40kts or so. Three radically different approaches which require entirely different conditions but all have equal merit as far as i'm concerned.

CJW said...

What do you call yellow pages? It's hardly a 'functional' craft for general sailing. It was built for and it's entire ethos is purely speed sailing, in one direction mind you, which in my opinion puts it in the 'silly contraption' category. Have you seen some of the other contraptions past/current to have a crack at this record? A kite is right in the non silly corner as far as i'm concerned.

<snip> Sailing as I define it is just using the wind, however you may harness it be it a kite or a sail, to propel yourself across the water. This does not include being towed by gliders, helicopters, land yachts etc.

Yellowpages still has a mechanical connection between sail (or wind wing) and the hull.
A kiter does not.

If being towed by a kite in the sky counts, please tell me how being towed by a landyacht would not count? Curious logic from you there mate.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt peoples

The question is:
Why do they say that kiting is not sailing AFTER the world speed record was broken and not before?
Was it just to let the kitesurfing guys organizing their event and pay for the international judge and homologation? (of course, their record is accepted in kitesurfing class but the main point was the absolute world record obviously...)
ISAF or world sailing speed record council could have rejected kitesurfing like 10 years ago and there would be no issue about this record...
Conclusion: What do we think about ISAF? USELESS???