This straight off the Boardseeker website:

Well the speed world is all over the place at the moment with the news that the kiting record of 50.57 by Alexandre Caizergues and the ground breaking 50+kt run of Sebastien Cattelan DO NOT count for the official sailing speed records. In an ISAF meeting it was decided that kite powered craft could not be recognised as the holder of the World Sailing Speed record.

Now we windsurfers dont always see eye to eye with the kiters, but credit where credit is due, they broke the 50kts, and however you look at things they are powered solely by the wind.

To add further to the controversy, it seems nobody can really explain why. The ISAF say a kite is not a sail. However their definition of a sail is:

A sail is any type of surface intended to generate thrust by being placed in a wind—in essence a vertically-oriented wing.

Back in the 70's Jacobs ladder made numerous attempts at the record using a stack of flexifoils attached to a boat and it was considered one of the great innovations of the speed sailing world. Now 30 years later it seems kites are sails?

So now the race is still on to break the 50 kts. Antoine, Finian, Bjorn and Whitey can all strap up their speed boards again and get back out on the course. Not sure how victorious they will feel however.

Let's look at it another way:

If you took a fully-rigged windsurf sail, detached it from the mastfoot, and somehow "flew" it up in the air on 20 metre lines, so it dragged you along below...is that sailing?

If you took a kitesurf kite without lines, fastened one corner of the leading edge directly to a board, and put a boom around it and rode the board like a windsurfer...is that kiting?

A sail or a kite can be made of carbon or cloth or plastic or even wood, and can come in all manner of crazy shapes, but it's still clear what is a sail is and what is a kite.

So kites can have the world speed kiting record and windsurfers can have the world speed sailing record! Hurrah!

The main problem kiters face is no one really likes kites except kiters.

So they may win out in the bay but they lose politically every time.

elmo said...


.....
They just don't want to acknowledge it and put it out of range of the froggy boat.
.....

There you have it.

hardie said...

elmo said...

It's a furken big yacht full of bollocks.

The kiters jumped through the hoops and leapt over barriers set up by the officialdom and still wiped the floor.

Then after the dust is settled they move the goal posts once again.

The Kiting crew know that Alex has done the biz
The Windsurfing crew (apart from those sailing on De-nile) know that Alex has done the biz.
The officials know that know that Alex has done the biz.

They just don't want to acknowledge it and put it out of range of the froggy boat.

HTFU princess's, Give Alex the recognition he deserves

Maybe it's got something to do with daylight savings?

Most likely, peoples have been right strange of late

T'was only a 2 sec peak just before he made a Bender sized dent in the Mandurah estuary

Rad Lad said...

This straight off the Boardseeker website:

...

To add further to the controversy, it seems nobody can really explain why. The ISAF say a kite is not a sail. However their definition of a sail is:

A sail is any type of surface intended to generate thrust by being placed in a wind—in essence a vertically-oriented wing.

Back in the 70's Jacobs ladder made numerous attempts at the record using a stack of flexifoils attached to a boat and it was considered one of the great innovations of the speed sailing world. Now 30 years later it seems kites are sails?

So now the race is still on to break the 50 kts. Antoine, Finian, Bjorn and Whitey can all strap up their speed boards again and get back out on the course. Not sure how victorious they will feel however.

Since I've been called on to explain why:
ISAF say a kite is not a sail. However their definition of a sail is:

"A sail is any type of surface intended to generate thrust by being placed in a wind—in essence a vertically-oriented wing."

Simple, a kite is not a "vertically-orientated wing". You don't see birds flying around with big bags on each side with strings attached, do you?

"VERTICALLY-ORIENTED!" There you have it. So be careful not to lean your rig over more than 45 degrees or you will be classed as horizontally oriented.

How about kitersurfers are not considered a sailing vessel (just speculating) as they have a kite, that is completly independently from the board, and only attached togeather via the rider. There is no connection between the kite and the board. Its almost like 2 different objects. I am just wondering if ISAF are thinking along these lines.

Whats would be the difference between a modified paraglider, with more forward pull, trawling a thin line in the water, or even dragging a small tray along the water ?

NR said...

How about kitersurfers are not considered a sailing vessel (just speculating) as they have a kite, that is completly independently from the board, and only attached togeather via the rider. There is no connection between the kite and the board. Its almost like 2 different objects. I am just wondering if ISAF are thinking along these lines.

Whats would be the difference between a modified paraglider, with more forward pull, trawling a thin line in the water, or even dragging a small tray along the water ?

Yes, you could have a waterskier waiting by the waters edge. A glider comes overhead at a rapid rate of knots trailing a rope, the waterskier grabs the rope and gets towed along. Instant world record!

mmmm hanggliding... Think that is the only sport I might like better than windsurfing. One day maybe when some relative dies and leaves me a fortune.

NotWal said...

100 knot catapult.

I see you have discovered one of my home videos

Mobydisc said...

If a gliding craft is considered to be a sailing craft then it opens up so many possibilities of record breaking vehicles.

Totally agree but perhaps someone should have told them that kites are excluded before they even bothered making the attempt. It's not like you can fail to see a kite. It's like waving the carrot then ripping it out of their mouth.

sick_em_rex said...
A glider is an incredibly lightweight vehicle, hence why it is able to utilise thermal updrafts to stay afloat rather than using jet or prop engine propulsion. (along with its wingspan) The effect of it trailing a rope for a waterskier or a pod as you put it to hook onto would virtually pull the thing out of the sky let alone damage the crap out of whatever it was trying to pull.
Sure, it's a thought extension but not a very logical one.

The glider only has to go 500m before crashing. I'm sure it could handle the weight of one extra person for that distance.

I think we are not trying to discuss the actual technicalities on how it would be done. Its just to bring up the point, when does it stop becoming "sailing", instead of something being dragged along the water with as little friction as possible by a flying machine.

I think ISAF may just be drawing a line here. But who knows exactly where it is and why. But also agree that its ashame that its done after the event. But I suppose out of the 2 options, a) back track and disqualify the kites and set new guidelines, or b) open up a whole can of worms for the future of the sailing record, they probably chose the best option. Who knows.

evlPanda said...

Think more harderer:

Thats what I'm talking about
Anyway the whole point of thought experiments is to push logical limits, not get bogged down in technicalities, engineers will sort them out later. If a guy holding onto a kite and is strapped to a board can claim the world speed sailing record then why can't a guy bouncing along behind some kind of glider claim the record too?

This is just a bit fun for me anyway coz I'm bored. Please don't take me too seriously coz I am not.