So you will continue to ride all over the place in the waves with nobody knowing what you'll do next..... so YOU have a good time but nobody else does?

Very mature and such a sharing attitude.

Johnt said...

Nebbian and Richiefish, as I am sure you know, South Passage is about a kilometer away from Werners illegal sign and windsurfing area –to what distance from the sign are you making claim to the sea?

Last year (or year before) when I was called to drag in a windsurfer who had broken his arm at the break directly offshore from the kiting area I didn’t hear much bleating about no kiting or “ownership” of the windsurfing area from any of you guys.

just as when someone needs rescuing by helicopter no one complains about the noise, or an ambulance siren etc etc.
"didnt hear much", that implies that there was some though? which is a bit off if you were rescuing.

Greenroom said...

Im all for the circle work rule
...
Simple. Its been around for years even in the surf rules. If anyone doesnt know, its called a LINE UP

Unfortunately in surf rules it's all about who is best/biggest gets the best parking spot.

Anyway, if about 20 windsurfers can agree and co-operate, why can't the 3 kiters? Mads you have to ask yourself that.

Hey, Merry Christmas internet nerds.

I am a kiter and an old windsurfer, I think mark has hit it on the head, to stop confusion the WAKSA and the windsurfing association should get together and produce some signs to put in area's alot like water skiing zones, this would stop alot of confusion, and prevent both sports from getting banned from areas.

Mark _australia said...

Well I'll give Madds the benefit of the doubt and assume he knows the rules (seems to have a handle on it maybe).

I think I have figured out what causes a lot of right of way problems in waves between kiters and windsurfers.

Windsurfers- we run out in a straight line, turn around on a swell and come in ... in a straight line, often running upwind using the assistance of that swell, before making the drop and riding down the line.

Kiters- well they are just bl00dy hard to read. Yes they go in and out like us but you can't tell when they are going to turn.... they just (excuse lack of technical terms here) fly the kite back over their head and change direction on a dime and sail back the other way switch stance in a fraction of a second.
When they ride a wave you can't tell if an arc is a bottom turn or if it is going to be a really rapid gybe.
Because they have that ability and the slidy style of riding, they
(1) slide sideways sometimes and (2) tend to do short runs through the break.... they don't go out 100 - 300m past the waves like we do... and they often gybe onto a wave when it is just about to break ... whereas we pick it up outside.

Now I don't agree with Madds necessarily.... as I said if 20 ppl were yelling at him maybe he is the problem ???? BUT I think a solution, in part , is for kiters to ride like we do..... (Not saying Madds did this!) but: pick the wave up on the outside and don't turn onto somebody else's wave. Don't get downwind of a guy who is just about to run down the line.

KITERS MAKE YOUR INTENTIONS OBVIOUS. Run straight out.... don't turn in the break unless you are riding a wave.
Simple

Yes I tend to agree. Mads this gradually increasing and tedious 'battle' between kiters and windsurfers is nothing to do with the fact that a Kiter is a different craft, or newer sport, it is very simply the fact that a Kite is a huge pain in the ar$e to have out on the water when you're windsurfing. When powered up the kite's lines are 20m+ and not knowing his intention you normally have to veer upwind or downwind to avoid him. You have more than 3 or 4 guys out and it's a complete nightmare. I've sailed Gnaraloo with 30 sailors and it was fine, I've also sailed it with 10 sailors and 2 kiters and it was a disaster. These kiters were both pretty good so it was nothing to do with inability or lack of respect it was do with the fact that a kite is 20m long. It adds an extra dimension that windsurfing doesn't have and takes up valuable room. If a Kite could be vertical the entire time or it's lines were < 5m there would be no problem. This is not some pathetic surfing territorial war, this tension exists because Kiters cannot really co-exist (in waves anyway) with windsurfers. I'm not talking large numbers of Kiters, I mean any number of kiters. I've sailed Lano with 50+ sailors, including large number of gumby Euros, but that is a lot more manageable than having 2 or 3 kiters out there. In 16 years of sailing in WA, I've witnessed maybe 2 or 3 minor incidents of agro between windsurfers, but now that Kiters have appeared on the scene agro has increased 10 fold. Kiters need to take responsibility for this and they need to understand why a poley is getting p*ssed off in the first place. I would never think of windsurfing out at Trigg point, even if there were only 2 surfers out, simply because I know a windsurfer can't sail a break with surfers there. And thats the way I see poleys and kiters. I'm struggling to understand why you and other Kiters seem oblivious to the fact that you're a nightmare to have out on the water? And I'm pretty disapointed in your attitude, considering you're an ex-windsurfer. You should be doing your utmost as a ex-poley to improve the reputation of Kiters and try and ingratiate, rather than alienate, yourself with windsurfers.

Zed has hit the nail on the head. I have a couple of friends who kite, hell, I'm even related to a kiter, so it's nothing personal. Kiters can be ok. Kiteboards can be ok, if they're not floating around loose. But KITES, man, they have to go. Find some other way.

Where I usually sail, it's flat, ocean with virtually unlimited space ouside, and several kilometres of nice beachside park. But lately the morons have decided to launch right at the windsurf club, where there are always 5-10 learners on beginner gear, and up to 40 more capable sailors on a good day. It only takes 1 or 2 kites to really stuff things up! And I'm sure these guys are being careful, I just wish they'd go be careful somewhere else! GGGRRRRRRRRRRRR!!

Stupid kites, cuss mutter grumble

Yep totally agree with Leech. If kiters are out and they know how to ride, then I dont give two hoots. I went for a SUP this morning with a good friend who has been kiting for almost 10 years. He said that kiters need to follow the same line as windsurfers. I agree. Just like if I was on my shortboard and shared the waves with a bodyboarder, just because we are using different boards doesnt mean there are different rules. We follow the same rules for catching waves. Simple. Share the stoke brothers and lets get some bloody waves

I sailed up the top of Lano on sunday arvo, no kiters but was getting snaked by sailors, one guy even pushed me up wind almost on the rocks and proceeded to bottom turn in front of me, he had no freakin idea.There where a few guys out there with no idea of wavesailing rules.. Like if someone is on the way out through the impact zone he should be given room to make it out without getting smashed, doesn't take much to stall a little so they get out safely.

To add to my disapointing experience i broke my down haul on my outside gybe and not one sailor came over to see if i was o.k. it's very sad.. People die from guys not watching out for each other out there, sailor or kiter..

I think you need to do like a licence test to sail popular breaks.

Mads said...

I see some comments about my profile ie 36 yo
Now 42yo hence 35 years on the breaks is realistic

Mads,
You're an ex-windsurfer who went to the darkside.
The poleys only have contempt for you.
Editing your age in your profile with some creative number-crunching so your claims make some sense.....
gives you no cred with the haters.
lol.

Zed said...

P.C_simpson said...



To add to my disapointing experience i broke my down haul on my outside gybe and not one sailor came over to see if i was o.k. it's very sad.. People die from guys not watching out for each other out there, sailor or kiter..

Lano is a pretty safe place to sail and you're a big boy. If you break anything there you can paddle in. I think if you were in a more dodgy situation/location you'd get help.

hmmmmm i disagree on the safe place thing, nearly drowned at SP and

i broke a uj out the back of main break once,, tried to swim in with kit, but just got washed down to hole in the wall, then repeatedly smashed for about 15 mins.. rip kept draggin me and my kit back in the nogo zone... about to dump my rig, luckily a crayboat rescued me...


if u ever see anyone out the back with broken kit, at the least sail upto them, even if u cant help them, just to ask them if they need u to get help etc or to let them know u'll keep an eye on em....common sence..... cant believe no one helped out PC , thats just tragic and goes to show how many dickheads sail there.

WINDY MILLER said...

Zed said...

P.C_simpson said...



To add to my disapointing experience i broke my down haul on my outside gybe and not one sailor came over to see if i was o.k. it's very sad.. People die from guys not watching out for each other out there, sailor or kiter..

Lano is a pretty safe place to sail and you're a big boy. If you break anything there you can paddle in. I think if you were in a more dodgy situation/location you'd get help.

hmmmmm i disagree on the safe place thing, nearly drowned at SP and

i broke a uj out the back of main break once,, tried to swim in with kit, but just got washed down to hole in the wall, then repeatedly smashed for about 15 mins.. rip kept draggin me and my kit back in the nogo zone... about to dump my rig, luckily a crayboat rescued me...


if u ever see anyone out the back with broken kit, at the least sail upto them, even if u cant help them, just to ask them if they need u to get help etc or to let them know u'll keep an eye on em....common sence..... cant believe no one helped out PC , thats just tragic and goes to show how many dickheads sail there.

Well I meant relatively safe, compared to other locations. I'd always help someone if he was in dire straits and needed help. But there is an onus on you to an extent to self-rescue if you can. I had to help some euro a few years back, he had a ripped panel in his sail and was drifting out to sea. He said he couldnt sail his gear back in, so we swapped gear and I got in fine on his ripped sail. And you should be able to sail in Ok with a broken downhaul rope. So yeah rescue someone if he needs it, but only if he is truely in trouble.

Leech said...

I think PC's point is that no1 even bothered to check if he was in trouble - let alone offer to rescue.

Ah OK. Yeah somebody should have at least checked him out.

Maybe he had a Neil Pryde sail?

Had some waves there today. Yes yes yes, verbally assaulted by some gumby trying to make date with me, couldn't really hear though as Nirvana was pumping through my iPod.
What a f$%kin' kook. At least 6 guys trying to mix it up with me at HITW, but I managed to f@4k them all over more than once as I was well powered on my ten in under 20 knots, danced rings around them as they pumped their "far too large for waves," "not large enough for for this little wind" nice and shiny, "did you get that for Christmas" sails. HA ha ha ha ha!

Yeah! I'll play the game but only on equal terms.....With those size sails, why bother?
So sloooooow.

Intresting enough i wasnt going anywhere near this topic ,because ive meet some good kite crew who line up and wack it and do the right thing for everyone on the water. The way it should be.

BUT THIS WEEKEN PROVED TO ME YOU GOTTA WATCH OUT .

I was at SUNSET (Geralton ) with a nice 3 foot swell just as the seabreeze hit so it was still clean and glassy a kiter just put his kite up ........and was first on the water..... he cranked a carving jybe on his first run out and the kite droped out of the sky and rolled on to its self...................Kite mere swim to the beach proceded..............AND i was alerted to the fact the break was quickly converted to a tampon despenser, with strings and **** everywhere.

I hit the water fully fanging and got into a great rythem .The kiter washed in, walked up the beach, untangled the dangle and re launched.

With in 15 min of him returning to the water i was fanging out, and he was on a wave just trimming through it ,he droped the kite down the entire length of the line up, For me this was kind on exiting ,believing he would pull it all back up ..........but as i approached feeding more power on, right from the inside , his kite edge hit the water and he went back into the water start position. i wasnt backing off and thought it may re launch ,but it dragged .............. i had no where to go and was fully committed......his bottom lines were in the water and the top lines were bouncing out of control from being in the water to 2 to 3 meters high.

With in seconds something was going to go down ?????? (was not going to be me)

The wave pitched in front of me and i launched into a long long boosted windsurfer floater approx 5 m down from his bar and med strings ,,,,,clearing the whole lot.

But at one point i was smashing through the whole shamozzle

Look at the end of the day **** happens, you got to hope its not bad **** ,like a serious injury/ death equipment damage which was so very close to happening.

This post / topic has some some valid points.

It can very quickly be like trying to mix Petrol with water.

FOKFs

I have only sailed once in close proximity with a kiter. It was at Pittwater, Palm Beach on a hot day with north west wind a few months ago. We had no problems and smiled and waved as we sailed back and forth. We were both enjoying a great warm day after a cold winter. However the kiter was female and blonde which probably didn't hurt engendering good will on my side.

So a big tip for kiters, become female good looking, smiling and blonde, you will have no problems from windsurfers wherever you kite Otherwise give windsurfers plenty of room and remember your lines are a hell of a lot longer than the pole you constantly disparage. Spatial inequality is an issue especially as the world become more populated. 20 meters is about 4 or 5 times as long as the average windsurfing mast.

Windsurfing takes up little room on the water and is the wind/water sport of the future in a crowded world.