What I find interesting is that Naish's claim that "Since you will be using a smaller size sail and shorter mast" tells me that they are returning to the power delivery of sails from pre-flat top days without the height? Lots of power down low, which suits my heavier weight, for instant speed but I guess a trade-off in less top speed? It's designed for waves afterall and ideal for freestyle too me thinks so top speed is not a priority.

If they have eliminated the upper twist off area from the norm and moved it down and out they must have done some serious shaping to the lower part of the sail to reduce pull from the top of the sail where they moved the sail area to.

I'd love to try one out in the XL size.

I fail to see how you can get more top end with a softer sail - less skin tension due to softer (shorter) masts and less battens for support.
Maybe I am missing something but a Fly, Swat or this thing will all be softer feeling than the same manufacturer's 5 batten wave sail.

FR, you are talking about early planing which means grunty down low, so how Naish can also claim much-increased top end is beyond me.

what were your thoughts on the north hero and the severne swat

FR said...

Hi All!

Wind Warrior and AUS301 are bang on. I have actually had a chance to use the Chopper sail here on Maui and it is truly amazing.

The "M" is equivalent to a 4.7 with increased top end range and same goes for the other sizes.

The control you gain with these sails, less swing weight without sacrificing power and early planing is unmatched.

FR

Sailworks have has similar explanation issues. Their Huckers, which have been around since at least 2005, are very grunty sails. 5.6 Hucker is like a 6.2 NP alpha in terms of power.

nzloopy said...

Sailworks have has similar explanation issues. Their Huckers, which have been around since at least 2005, are very grunty sails. 5.6 Hucker is like a 6.2 NP alpha in terms of power.

well... and a 2012 Atlas 4.7 is like a 2009 5.4 Alpha.

Don't get me wrong. The Huckers are good sails but the 6.2 never really made a lot to sense to me. The difference between the 6.2 and the 5.8 Alpha in my opinion is nill.

Back to topic... I agree with Mark that I would like to see how it actually works. I was always sceptical of quad and twin boards but found that Thrusters seem to be a good compromise. Yet any of those boards in the right conditions out perform a single fin.

I think the bottom line is the chopper is designed for a very specific market. Having seen a number of Hawaiian sailors at places like Gnaraloo I would say as a general rule of thumb a lot of them like to sail very underpowered.

Troppo said...

Justin is saying that they are targeted towards heavier sailors having more grunt to get up and go. In response to windwarriors post.

84Kg?? Heavier sailors?? 84Kg sailors are lightweight kidz .

Must be something to it, would seem Maui Sails are now doing similar stuff with their new Mutant.

www.mauisails.com/news.php?id=309

aus301 said...

Must be something to it, would seem Maui Sails are now doing similar stuff with their new Mutant.

www.mauisails.com/news.php?id=309

Yeah but people also bought footy fins, canards, Z booms, chest harnesses, and god knows what else due to fashion, but we now know better

I think these unstable sails for featherweights will go the same way

Mark _australia said...

Yeah but people also bought footy fins, canards, Z booms, chest harnesses, and god knows what else due to fashion, but we now know better

I think these unstable sails for featherweights will go the same way

Hmmm, all the innovations you are talking about are quite old though Mark, I really think the R&D on gear these days is far greater and highly doubt you would see two companies go to market with something that didn't work.

And there was nothing wrong with chest harnesses, I used one for years.

Hi guys. I'm a lightweight at 72 kg and I have a Naish boxer sl 7.0 2010 which rigs on 430 rdm. It is really compact compared to other sails and the 2012 is even more compact!Is that a problem??Works far better for me compared to other sails I had up to 8.5.Really like handling a much smaller sail and by far a lighter rig. Have never used a boxer but looking forward to hear comments on the chopper after someone tries it.I really think that when you are overpowered it is a lot easier to handle a smaller rig of the same sail size.Maybe thats what they mean for the top end conditions.

so mathew you are saying that someone at 85 kg should use the same gear as me?I think that for the same wind if I use M he should use L.We should go as you suggest just stay in the past and don't try something new

So essentially what theyve done is gone wavesailors dont need this top floppy bit of the sail since they don't need a ridiculous top end speed so we'll cut it off?

I can see them standing in the loft

Loft boss:"Wow! that looks super! Sooooooo, how much exactly did you cut off each one?"

Sailmaker:"Ummmmm S#%t"

Loft boss: "Thats a carton! Alright, we'll call this one a small this one a medium...........

Mark _australia said...

I think what he is saying is where is the XXXS? or the XXXXL? Having 4 sizes for a whole range is dumb.

Sorry Mark, just picking up on this comment. I find it interesting that almost any discussion on how to get more people windsurfing seems to have as one of the top responses a need to simplify the sport. In this we are getting exactly what has been asked for by some parts of the market, maybe not all which may be where you sit.

4 sizes for a range of wave sails seems ok to me, I don't know many wave sailors that don't have a range looking something like 5.7, 5.3, 4.7, 4.2 etc or less depending on location - here in QLD we can drop the 4.2 for instance. So XL, L, M, S... I guess I don't get what the issue is.

Finally a company is making it easy for consumers. Here are the sizes, they all rig on a single mast away you go. We then may see benefits through economies of scale for the manufacturer, less sizes from them means greater sale of individual sizes and lower production costs for a given size in the range, maybe, I don't assume to know the cost models behind sail production.

I will re-iterate, as it seems to be on peoples minds... I don't sail for or own a Naish sail. I tried one once and hated it. But I do like some elements of the concept behind the chopper. I have started to see some glowing reviews, however they may be taken with a grain of salt as I assume only a selected few have had the opportunity of riding one, who may be the same people that stand to benefit from the sails success.

Why all the grief Mark about Marketing. Surely you know not to read or believe any of the sales blurbs. It is another product to fill a niche like millions of other products out there.
It is not a sail for everyone, it is another tool for those that want it. You can still get 5.7 forces or sessions or boxers. Here is a sail for wave riding on great waves for anyone who doesn't want a standard style sail.
Mybe it is all gimmick but gimmicks do sell and some of them work.

There are boards made for the same wave conditions - they are not for onshore days, not for lumpy surf but are awesome on clean waves. That doesn't mean everyone has to have one.

I though twins and quads were a fad and now I have both and won't go back to a single fin as the multi fins offer me better riding.
I thought 4 batten sails suck from my experience 10 years ago, but now love some of the newer models and would always want one handy. They are way more stable than I thought, more fun to use and light. And I am sailing with 95kg guys who like the same gear all-be-it in the next size up.

It is all about choice - if you think it sucks don't try it. I agree there have been some very dodgy ideas bought to market but one mans turd is another mans gold.

Just to keep the bigger guys happy, there is also some serious work being done on proper wave oreinted 6.2's and 6.7's by some companies for the bigger wave boards guys are now buying and lightest of wind, so it seems everyone is being catered for more easily nowadays.

The way i have read the naish site is not that the 4.7 has the same top end os a 4.2, but more along the lines the actual sail size is around a 4.2 but has a much better bottom end - similar to that of the 4.7, and thus keeping it's original top end. see excerpt from naish site.

Possible ????

Time will tell.

When team rider, Mark Angulo, ripped a brand new Force nearly in half during an epic wipe-out that took him over the rocks at Ho'okipa, he asked us to put the sail put back together minus the top 2 feet (and top batten) just to see what would happen. After spending some time sailing it, the result surprised even Mark. His re-built 4.7 (which was now barely a 4.2) had nearly the same range as the original sail, and was letting him get away with moves that would have been unthinkable just a month earlier!