Saw this new 4 batten wave sail from Naish. Odd they only size them in S, M, L, XL rather than the traditional area m2 size.

http://www.naishsails.com/2012/sails/chopper.html

Naish Chopper
Target: Hardcore wave sailors that weigh less than 185 lbs
185 lbs = 83.91 kg
Finally got wave boards for the 'larger' sailor... any guess as to if/when the big sail brands are going to follow suit and look after the 'big boned' types

Sizing below:
Small (S): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 4.2 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 3.7

Medium (M): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 4.7 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 4.2

Large (L): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 5.3 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 4.7

X-Large (XL): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 5.7 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 5.3

I don't think it's too bad a sizing concept as long as you know what sailor's weight it's based on and in this case 185lbs (84kg). An "average" weight standard used by other makers too? The wind range is a good mention. Noble attempt at changing standards of just numbers?

Gestalt said...

simmer icon
ka killer

Both 5 batten sails with a luff length over 430 in a 5.7, where as the Chopper XL has a luff of 390 and one less batten.

Um not sure what you are trying to say here Justin? But from the specs the simmer and KA seem to be nothing like this sail.

Justin is saying that they are targeted towards heavier sailors having more grunt to get up and go. In response to windwarriors post.

jermaldan said...

Looks nice, but this sizing thing is a dumb move.

I disagree, it will be tricky especially if you are trying to fit one of these into an existing range of sails. But that being said a 5.3 is not the same across all sails. A power wave 5.3 will be different to a flatter control oriented 5.3 and that can be with-in one manufacturer. It's just a change from numbers to letters, hell most of us have bought clothes like this for years and had no real problem. The numbered sail size is just an arbitrary number that has no reflection on the power of the sail anyway. If this is progressed it might actually be good. In a wave range you could just buy a medium sail which could be anything from a 5.0 to a 5.4 in the conventional thinking, but for a given weight rider will feel like the same power. In saying that I can't see the same concept working for race sails.

BTW I don't own a Naish sail or aspire to, never really liked them. But I do like the concept as someone who is striving for minimal gear (one board, 2 maybe 3 sails, one mast, one boom) this sort of thinking fits well into that. It also starts to release the pressure on consumers to require a different mast to optimally rig each sail size in their quiver. Anything that results in a reduction in cost to the public, while maintaining quality and usability will be good for the sport.

yeah apologies for the cryptic response. i should of hit the quote button.

severne have openly said they design their sails for people in the 80kg range.

but yeah, i agree, sail companies need sailors at the heavy end of the scale also.

stehsegler said...

WindWarrior said...

Naish Chopper
Target: Hardcore wave sailors that weigh less than 185 lbs
185 lbs = 83.91 kg

Cudos to Naish for at least admitting to this. A lot of other brands pretend to offer gear for heavier sailors. Never mind that it's developed by 75 kilo feather weights.

My rule of thumb: look at their team riders responsible for development. Is one of them in your weight bracket? If so, there could be a good sail for you.

It's good to see Severne having Bjorn on their team. I assume he has some input into their wave sail range. Neil Pryde seems to do ok with their Atlas range. I assume Antoine and Koester are doing the testing or least have some sort of input into the development.

With the rest of them I can't really see how a 75 to 80 kilo rider would be able to adequately test gear that someone in the 90 - 100 range will be using.

The board makers seem finally get it. Sail makers still have a way to go.

BTW Kev, just get one of those 2012 Atlas. They seem heavy when you roll them out but they have so much drive when you are on the water you can easily go .5 smaller than you normally would.

^

WindWarrior said...

Naish Chopper
Target: Hardcore wave sailors that weigh less than 185 lbs
185 lbs = 83.91 kg
Finally got wave boards for the 'larger' sailor... any guess as to if/when the big sail brands are going to follow suit and look after the 'big boned' types

Sizing below:
Small (S): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 4.2 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 3.7

Medium (M): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 4.7 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 4.2

Large (L): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 5.3 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 4.7

X-Large (XL): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 5.7 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 5.3

They obviously cater for areas that have decent wind..

just areas with decent waves, and consistent x/offshore wind.
im trying to workout if the S is a 4.2 or 3.7 ??

WindWarrior said...

Naish Chopper
Target: Hardcore wave sailors that weigh less than 185 lbs
185 lbs = 83.91 kg
Finally got wave boards for the 'larger' sailor... any guess as to if/when the big sail brands are going to follow suit and look after the 'big boned' types

Sizing below:
Small (S): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 4.2 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 3.7

Medium (M): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 4.7 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 4.2

Large (L): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 5.3 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 4.7

X-Large (XL): This is the optimum size for conditions that would require a 5.7 out of a normal
sail range, with the benefit of an extended top end range similar to a 5.3

To me this says each sail has a small wind range.

It seems to follow the same concept as the Goya Banzai and I would actually believe what they're saying a seeing the Goya Banzai in use. (I've seen people use a 4.9 in less than 15knts of wind when most guys were on 5.8s).
The point about them being like the first Boxer could be true through, I would say it may not sail the best (it does look very square) - like the first boxer (that said, Kauli Seadi still ripped on one). Although after a few years of evolution, it should become better and probably a good sail (like the boxer and the fly which was adapted from it)

Cant wait for some bunnys to lay there hard earned on the line and give us the results! We dont get real wind in Qld so its going to have to be other states!

They will either be great and revolutionary and others will follow or they will be a fad/flop, I'm hoping for great.

They are most definatly onto something here, and R.Naish is no fool, I'm sure he's made more money out of kiting & SUP than windsurfing , so they are thinking 'how can we simplify things' how can we make this sport more attractive again and make it easier to say 'yes' and not be bamboozled by the mindless amount and variation of sails just in each brand let alone other brands, they have seen how simple Kiteing gear is and Sup also, if they can do similar for windsurfing that will be a great thing for the sport.
And if they get more sail/sales so what, great.

1 mast/boom 3-4 sails, why not? that should be perfectly achievable, Challenge is now do the same in freeride/slalom!

We are so over complex, over technical as sport, and that sucks and is what keeps people away, even scares current sailors away, anything that puts the focuss more on the sailing and less on the gear is a good thing.
I think I counted over 100 different model sails on one brands website alone, and thats just this seasons, how do you explain that to someone keen on getting into the sport?

I hope the concept has wings, because it could only end up in more development down the 'simplification line' , which is a good thing, from a manufacturers view it would have to be better also, that is unless they want to sell us something 'that just does this little thing just a bit better than that little thing, which of course does it a bit better than last year! hmmm lets hope this 'chopper' is not just an example of marketing BS at its greatest. Technically it makes sense, but it all really comes down to how does it sail? how does it feel? And does super light really mean, lucky to last a year?

Let us know, when someone sails one!, the video sells it well thats for sure!

Not sure how it sails but it should be pretty light, for starters you save about .7kg on the XL just by using a 370 rather than a 430.

I wonder if they will do a NSW edition... with the sizes xxl and xxxl .