lotofwind said...

Yawn,get back on topic and stop stalking me.

Yes, lets!!!!

This was about a pro windsurfer not getting paid enough. It was on topic until you posted.

You posted derogatory remarks about windsurfing, with nothing of substance or relevant to the thread to contribute.
So tell us all how you feel about the sponsorship deals of pro windsurfers - or maybe even pro kiters or surfers - instead of blatant trolling. Feel free to get "back on topic" any time.

I'm a PRO straw bale builder. I don't get paid enough. Let's all shed a tear for me aswell and then move on. I won't give up my job though. I ain't no quiter. Not unless i crack the PRO windsurfer ranks, or the PRO downhillers for that matter.
If only we could be happy with what we got.

I think he should just be stoked he has had the chance to live the life he has, now it's time to live like the rest of us, and do something you don't like to have money to do things you do.

I'm pretty sure he still will get payed a little by some sponsores and he won't have to work full time and miss all the epic sessions like 90% of the rest of the windsurfing world..

If you didn't have people like these to inspire us there wouldn't be a "windsurfing world".

Mark _australia said...

P.C_simpson said...

I think he should just be stoked he has had the chance to live the life he has, now it's time to live like the rest of us, and do something you don't like to have money to do things you do.

I'm pretty sure he still will get payed a little by some sponsores and he won't have to work full time and miss all the epic sessions like 90% of the rest of the windsurfing world..

I agree, and I think that is kinda like what Moby said, and got red thumbs galore.

Now may be the time for him to work his arse off (for little money) to start something - be it a board brand like Rassmussen, Dunkerbeck and Thommen, Goya etc did, or coaching like many others, or make a video with a flash book like Scotty did.
The guy does have my sympathy if he truly has better results than others yet getspaid much less, but as I said we don't know the whole story so maybe he is an awesome sailor but a marketing nightmare in every sense of the word.

Dunno why I get such a negative response to a few suggestions about a struggling pro diversifying income away from prize money but still working as a 'professional windsurfer'. Is that such a bad idea or should a professional windsurfer only concentrate on 'extreme' moves and putting their body on the line 6 hours a day? That doesn't seem to work well financially.

Sure some of the ideas I suggested probably are not feasible but the personal attack seems a bit unwarranted and really not in the spirit of this forum or what I would hope the windsurfing community to be in general.

I think because you made it sound easy.
There's a very short list of guys who've made a go of their own brand. In the last ten years , big players like Mistral, Bic and F2 have faded away to nothing.
There is not really room for a new brand in the market, and it would be a major deal at this stage to achieve that. Getting venture capital to get started would be a miracle in itself in the current financial environment. You'll need more than a knick-knack, Paddy Wack, to get the frog a loan.
Sure, boutique brands like Nude will pop up, but he is a shaper, not a sailor, and will no doubt do surfboards and SUP as well. How much money will be made is another question too.

Mobydisc said...

Mark _australia said...

P.C_simpson said...

I think he should just be stoked he has had the chance to live the life he has, now it's time to live like the rest of us, and do something you don't like to have money to do things you do.

I'm pretty sure he still will get payed a little by some sponsores and he won't have to work full time and miss all the epic sessions like 90% of the rest of the windsurfing world..

I agree, and I think that is kinda like what Moby said, and got red thumbs galore.

Now may be the time for him to work his arse off (for little money) to start something - be it a board brand like Rassmussen, Dunkerbeck and Thommen, Goya etc did, or coaching like many others, or make a video with a flash book like Scotty did.
The guy does have my sympathy if he truly has better results than others yet getspaid much less, but as I said we don't know the whole story so maybe he is an awesome sailor but a marketing nightmare in every sense of the word.

Dunno why I get such a negative response to a few suggestions about a struggling pro diversifying income away from prize money but still working as a 'professional windsurfer'. Is that such a bad idea or should a professional windsurfer only concentrate on 'extreme' moves and putting their body on the line 6 hours a day? That doesn't seem to work well financially.

Sure some of the ideas I suggested probably are not feasible but the personal attack seems a bit unwarranted and really not in the spirit of this forum or what I would hope the windsurfing community to be in general.

I think his problem was that he moved from Fanatic to Mistral. Mistral is a dying brand with limited funds. He is not only an awesome jumper but can ride waves too as this light wind video shows:

Point taken, however for me personally it's watching guys like this that makes me push myself to get better. It's what inspires ME. Ever since I was a kid I was watching videos of naish and waltze, cabrinah ect and dreamt of going to Maui one day and being able to do what they were doing, sh!.t I used to go to bed and dream of it! Certainly wasn't getting that from watching some guy on a Wally going back and forth in a bay!?!
All I was saying is that it takes a he'll of a lot of dedication, injuries, and time to get that good ( all without making a cracker) , and it's a shame these guys can no longer make a living out of it. By the way I thinks his main beef is not being able to survive rather than not being able to rich. which isn't unreasonable......

yep, new people getting into windsurfing and older dudes and chicks getting back into it after a long hiatus always see people windsurfing locally and decide it's something they would like to do.

none of these people have any idea of the world speed record or the state of backloops and other crazy moves.

Yes it's sad that a pro windsurfer can't make a living out of windsurfing. But what does he call "make a living”??? Is it $30/40/50/100k for himself/his family? Is his wife working? How big is his mortgage ($200/600/1500k)? To get a realistic picture I would like to know some (ball park) numbers (realistic income - after all expenses)...

BTW: If I'm not happy with my job/salary - I have to change something... (Whinging usually does not get me anywhere)

Sorry for being so negative - but we all are "battlers" somehow.

greenleader said...

yep, new people getting into windsurfing and older dudes and chicks getting back into it after a long hiatus always see people windsurfing locally and decide it's something they would like to do.

none of these people have any idea of the world speed record or the state of backloops and other crazy moves.

And its pretty depressing when they do & realise how although they used to be in the advanced category back in the 90's they are now left behind so far they are almost beginners..

sboardcrazy said...

pweedas said...

Well that sort of proves the point doesn't it?
Betamax was always a better device than VHS but because the lowly unwashed masses all flocked to the cheaper and more easy to use VHS, they eventually swamped the market with the trashy but highly marketable VHS, and Betamax was relegated to the use of a more perfectionist group.
You might have noticed that tv stations stuck with Betamax right up until recently when digital took over.
Beta always was a better technology much as windsurfing still is today.
But as you so rightly pointed out, it can be hard to make a living out of it even though it is still a better technology.

Unfortunately thats the way things seem to be going..everyone wants cheap so they buy asian made stuff and the Aussie made quality goods struggle.. eg - furniture.. The business just has to get the message across that their product is quality and will outlive the chinese made stuff + market the other benefits..Unfortunately the success of that may depend on what sort of marketing budget these business's have.. They cant get the exposure of Harvey Norman etc..Every B 2nd ad on the local radio is Harvey Norman![}:)][}:)] Cripes they must have a massive marketing budget.

Some truths in that you say Sue, but not perhaps those you think.

"Everyone wants cheap"..."(domestic manufcturers) get the message across that their product is quality and will outlive the chinese made stuff". People dont want quality anymore, they want cheap (as you said). People dont want furniture that lasts forever, they know they will replace it within 10 years because they want to.
How often have I heard even in the last year "we are getting a new kitchen", "we are getting a new sofa" etc.

When Gerry Harvey went looking for imports to be charged GST so local businesses could compete - he was shouted down quickly. And his suggestions would have benefitted all australian manufacturers.
People are happy to bang on about how local businesses cannot compete, yet still buy imported products, or from online shops that dont directly employ anyone.
Last week Borders went into liquidation because their business model was unsustainable. So many people buy books online that a shop that keeps stock and employs staff cannot compete on cost alone.
What about video stores, and music stores - that too have unsustainable business models in the medium term.

These are interesting times, the Keynesian definition of value is being challenged by online stores, especially for commodities. Professional windsurfers have to become a different breed, they have to be walking billboards, who are media savvy. Google Sean O'Brien Aus120 and see how many articles you find about him. He has just been snapped up as a Starboard Dream team member, and I suspect that although it is in part because of his results, it is largely because he knows how to get his name and associated brands into the limelight.

Sorry to bang on - in my defence it is my lunchtime,

JB

I agree totally with you JayBee about what you write about being a professional windsurfer in this day and age. I apologise for becoming defensive and making accusations against Andrew. Its not in the spirit of these forums which I've gotten many hours of enjoyment and interest out of.

they're good at making stuff with no moving parts. i've got an awesome set of chinese made chopsticks

Interesting post... I totally understand what Jonas is talking about. That being said, "welcome to the real world" buddy.

The first mistake is looking to the windsurfing brands as a sole source of sponsorship. The reality is, the market isn't big enough for a brand to reap the benefits of sponsoring more than 1-2 "big" names (ala Bjorn Dunkerbeck, Antoine etc). If you look at sail manufacturers, you'd be really surprised to learn that the margin they make on selling sails to their distributors is really, really, really, really small. In the vicinity of 50-100 euros per sail.

So if a rider comes along asking 20,000 euros sponsorship for a year (which to be honest, is a trifle compared to what I could make working 4 days a week at McDonalds), the brand has to come back to them and say, "sure, please let me know your plan to help us generate 200-400 new sales in 2011". There aren't too many riders who can come up with that plan. A few magazine articles and 1-2 youtube videos that barely get 2,000 hits just simply aren't going to generate those sales.

That being said; there's a real emerging market for sponsorship for the new generation who are a bit more internet savvy and are willing to go the extra mile. As JayBee mentioned I've just signed a deal with the Starboard dream team. Hard to imagine my results were the factor when they already sponsor Dunkerbeck, KP, Moussilmani, Menegatti, Van der Steen, Diaz, Vesterstrom, Brzozowski, Schurmann ... right? But what I can offer them is arguably more valuable to sales than coming inside the Top 10 in slalom (aside from Bjorn and KP who simply generate sales from just being awesome everywhere they go) and Starboard were quick to work this out.

Like all formats of sport on TV, things need to adapt. The windsurfing sponsorship game has changed, and if you can't adapt, I'm sorry, but you miss out. It's really sad to see someone who sails like a king as Jonas does falling on hard times - but this is the reality in most sports that aren't prime-time superbowl style stadium sports.

I think for anyone aspiring to turn pro and take this awesome sport further, you really have to look outside of industry sponsorship to make ends meet, and treat the industry sponsorship for what it is - which is it's one of the best marketing engines you will ever get (I can tell you if I produce a video for Starboard it will get about 10x more hits than if I just plug it myself) and one of the best support tools for equipment, advice and general product help; but it is not a finance factory like a NFL or EPL franchise is. So you need to have industry sponsors AND outside sponsors.

The game has changed.