I think you will find in my original comment that I took evasive action x3. It is has a lot to do with the problem when less experienced sailors come together.
It is the problem of not knowing what the kite or windsurfer is going to do. At least with the rules in place it is far easier to predict. We all get it wrong occasionally when dealing with extreme conditions, so this the reason for this post to reduce many of the possibilities that are under our control, such as reading the rules of safe boating.

N1GEL said..

Mark _australia said..
If ever there was a case for a 'sticky' thread at the top of each forum this is it.
Kiters need a right of way article at the top of their forum permanently. Time and again they are dumbfounded when we mention it, some take it on board but many get argumentative about how it is dumb, or hard to know, or why should I....?
Unbelievable.

I often refer to windsurfing as "sailing". I've never heard a kiter refer to themselves as a sailor (nor should they)... hence the problem.

Kiters, boogers and scooters... all kooks as far as I'm concerned.

what would class a windsurfer anymore a sailor than someone who competed on a foil or race board in YA sanctioned kiting events ?


Curious to hear your reasoning apart from some resentment towards all kiters .

dusta said..

N1GEL said..

Mark _australia said..
If ever there was a case for a 'sticky' thread at the top of each forum this is it.
Kiters need a right of way article at the top of their forum permanently. Time and again they are dumbfounded when we mention it, some take it on board but many get argumentative about how it is dumb, or hard to know, or why should I....?
Unbelievable.

I often refer to windsurfing as "sailing". I've never heard a kiter refer to themselves as a sailor (nor should they)... hence the problem.

Kiters, boogers and scooters... all kooks as far as I'm concerned.

what would class a windsurfer anymore a sailor than someone who competed on a foil or race board in YA sanctioned kiting events ?


Curious to hear your reasoning apart from some resentment towards all kiters .

You've missed the point as per the previous post. But to state the obvious for you, windsurfing uses a "SAIL", kiting uses a kite... therefore I assume (and I only assume, 'cause I don't know any tee-baggers) that kiters don't feel they need to follow the rules because they don't associate with sailors. I liken it to jetskis not following boating rules. Ka'peesh??

thanks for the red thumbs.

Nigel.... really!
A kite is a sail. It is the same. We are all getting blown around by the wind.
A windsurfer sail is a foil used to transfer wind energy. A kite is a foil used to transfer wind energy.
There is no difference. Mentally, maybe by some.
A sail on a yacht is a foil and is used to transfer wind energy into forward motion.

N1GEL said..

Fez said..
Nigel.... really!
A kite is a sail. It is the same. We are all getting blown around by the wind.
A windsurfer sail is a foil used to transfer wind energy. A kite is a foil used to transfer wind energy.
There is no difference. Mentally, maybe by some.
A sail on a yacht is a foil and is used to transfer wind energy into forward motion.

Sure Fez, but, foils ain't foils


...my point was that maybe kiters don't see themselves as having to abide by sailing rules. I'm only trying to provide an answer as to why that is. I can only postulate because I don't know jack about kiting, nor do I care to.

Not all kiters are teabaggers as you say . Some kiters race week in week out at a sailing club , abiding by sailing rules and run standard sailing courses . Well this happens in WA anyway, unsure about the rest of the country but my point is nigel you obviously are one of those windsurfers who has had bad runins with an ignorant kiter and i will admit there are plenty of those about BUT there are also plenty of arrogant windsurfers out there who deliberately bear down on a kiter who has right of way .

I have had it happen to me at melville by a bald headed idiotic windsurfer who has anger issues . I abide by the rules of the sea and always give a windsurfer plenty of room if they seem to be uncomfortable with me coming so close , most of the guys at melville know kiters on certain boards aren't actually a threat but i can understand their concern for the majority of kiters .


I know you are giving all my posts red thumbs nigel but just chill out mate :)

waveslave said..

"Damn, too many stickers. Can't see those pesky kiters through my sail window."

people who drive on the street have some knowledge of the rules cuz they have at least passed a written and a practical test
some people have done additional lessons or training
this entitles them to a "permit"

seems sailors in a boat over a certain size/length also require some kind of "permit"

if you want other water vehicles to have an idea of the "rules", guess what
that requires a permit and perhaps some enforcement
NOT sure I am ready for that
so, watch what you wish for !!!
for now - it's pirates on the sea !!!
and yes - try to avoid collisions

waveslave said..

waveslave said..

"Damn, too many stickers. Can't see those pesky kiters through my sail window."

This guy generally only needs to look backwards

You have many good points, but I think Fez is referring to a specific little piece of sand bar that protrudes and is only a few hundred meters long. There's many obstacles like oyster beds, reo, old sunken boats and many more nasties to avoid. It's like Mark mentioned, you can harp on about a particular spot, but unless you sail there you wouldn't know how it works. My understanding of this spot is that there's a very fine line between flat speed water and the chop from the river that flows beside it. It's a tight spot even for windsurfing

Threads like this are such a waste of time, you're not going to fix anything by ranting and swearing about it. The kiters, jetskis you're talking about are not reading this forum, the ones that are probably come here to troll you anyway.

Forums 101 - ask questions, get advice, share the stoke.

<end of thread>

N1GEL said..
You have many good points, but I think Fez is referring to a specific little piece of sand bar that protrudes and is only a few hundred meters long. There's many obstacles like oyster beds, reo, old sunken boats and many more nasties to avoid. It's like Mark mentioned, you can harp on about a particular spot, but unless you sail there you wouldn't know how it works. My understanding of this spot is that there's a very fine line between flat speed water and the chop from the river that flows beside it. It's a tight spot even for windsurfing

Have you sailed Taren pt man????? or are you just harping on??????

It reads like your trying to pretend its a secret spot, that reminds of when Leo and Keef thought they discovered Lake Illawarra about 8 yrs ago.......
Lake Secret spot,

Ive sailed it heaps, its not a secret spot nor does it have anything unique about sailing it, eg, its not like sailing Harrington

Its a little sandbar, accessed by sailing about a 1.5km through open water, hit the bar, bear off, gype at the end, come back up wind in the open water till high enough to turn, sail back through open water so you can hit the bar at the top, bear off....repeat



So whats the problem??

The kiters turn tight and back and fourth their sess on the flat.......

If you wanna enforce some sorta local only vibe, then start imposing your will on others out there, if not, the Bot sailors should stop crying about sharing Sydneys main waterway for about a 4 million population

If its not kiters, then its jetskis, or its guys fishing off the rocks......the funny thing being, that only windsurfers have broken the most important rule of Bot, don't sail, or get stuck inside the restricted area at the runway.........that's probably the only thing that would get windsurfing banned, and windsurfers do it alot

Fez, have you tried Remi's method of constantly yelling starboard all the time at everyone on the water??????

Or The Boss method, where he will kill you if you get in his way?????????

Both these methods have proved pretty in effective

What about the ol sailor method at Bot, basically in a constant state of petition the council to ban every other water craft?????

"WHAT????!!!!!!! What do you mean they are putting in another boat ramp???!!!!!!!!"

Petition against it.....ha

Roar said..
The problem exists because kiters at this sand bar dont bear off and come back out in the open water - they just do 180 turns on the inside and come straight back out along the flat section then 180 (or boost) again at when they get near the chop.

They basically cruise back and forth only in the flat section so are a constant hazard for anyone entering this area at speed.

The guys who kite here are not beginners and as it takes a bit of work to get up wind to the spot

So lets get this straight

The kiters cruising back and fourth, creating no problems, they are the hazard, not the windsurfer who thought it was his right to bear off through a crowded area?

Surely you can see that there was no hazard until the windsurfer turned up

If you cant enter whats already happening safely, then your the hazard!!!!

Are you guys aloud to scream through at high speeds doing "speed runs" that close to other water uses?
Not having a go at you.
Just interested in the regulations of a highly powered fast moving vessel in amongst other water uses ?
Is there a minimum distance a vessel doing that sort of speed should be from others?

Serious question.
But Im sure I'll just get red thumbed for being a kiter posting on here asking a serious question,

Roar said..
The problem exists because kiters at this sand bar dont bear off and come back out in the open water - they just do 180 turns on the inside and come straight back out along the flat section then 180 (or boost) again at when they get near the chop.

They basically cruise back and forth only in the flat section so are a constant hazard for anyone entering this area at speed.

The guys who kite here are not beginners and as it takes a bit of work to get up wind to the spot

sounds like a good spot to kite at, I might come out one day.

AJEaster said..

N1GEL said..
Kiters, boogers and scooters... all kooks as far as I'm concerned.

Really? You must have a terribly high opinion of your skill levels.

I wavesail with some pretty good kiters that I have a lot of respect for. They certainly aint kooks. At my local I have surfed a lot with Damian King, kicking arse. His legion of mates were too...........nope, not kooks. At the local skatepark with my son, the bikes and scooters are doing some awesome stuff......nope not kooks. In fact, all cool, but different. I think you need to readjust the googles through which you perceive yourself and your fellow sports people.

Here here AJ, I think that is the majority of the problem.
A few people, kiters and polers, think like N1GEL, that they are awesome and everyone else are kooks because they arent doing the same thing as awesome as they (think ) are.
The water,beach,skate park...what ever, are for all to enjoy, not just the few that think they deserve it more.

Sorry N1GEL, but your poo stinks just like everyone elses.