35 knot racing

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Kimba
Kimba
SA
459 posts
SA, 459 posts
3 Aug 2011 10:39pm
choco said...

Kimba said...

choco said...

Kimba said...

I know Bjorn has come close in previous years and Antoine has had some luck help him to the title, this year is no different. Antoine had a big catapult like last year.

Antoine looks like he has SOOOOO MUCH CONTROL in his races and is so consistent in his starts. Other guys boards are bucking all over the place, Antoines has stable trim. Even looking at leach twist in the rough water, most sailors leaches are flapping all over the place and working overtime, Antoines is more stable and breathing gently. Might have been the particular final but only he and a few others seemed comfortable when it really hit.


and this coming from a NP rider Antoine would win on any kit! last few years no one could get close to him, the field has caught up!


They sure have caught up - the competition can now reach the same leg of the race to actually see him go over the finish!


would you still be an Antoine groupie if he changed brands? think not


Antoine is a great athlete that does what other great athletes do - they make things that are quite difficult look pretty easy (even without a caddie, victor...). I doubt he will make any equipment changes soon as he has so much to do with the development of his gear and it definately work for him.
But hey, if he did part with Pryde after so many years(and world titles) I would still be in awe because he is an amazing sailor.

Would you still be in love with Ben if he left Loft?
GazMan
GazMan
WA
848 posts
WA, 848 posts
3 Aug 2011 9:51pm
SeanAUS120 said...
The strongest recorded gust I saw on that day was 48 knots. Most of the racing that day it was +40 knots and it doesn't quite look it in the photos but the chop is super close together, steep and nasty and then you have a slow rolling swell of around 1m that goes in the direction you are sailing; perpendicular to the wind chop, so it's pretty hard to sail in a straight line even!

I think the level in slalom has gone up in the last 2 years. Maybe its still the Antoine and Bjorn show overall but if you look through the results of the whole Top 16 the places are changing dramatically every event and there is a ton of guys who can win winner's finals now. None of this 'Antoine winning 7 out of 8 eliminations' like it was 3-4 years ago!


In your opinion Sean, what are the factors that have made the other guys so much more competitive and hungry than they were 3-4 years ago when Antoine was in control of many slalom finals?

Also, do you know if many of the top 16 PWA racers train for events in 40+ knots on their slalom kit?

terminal
terminal
1421 posts
1421 posts
4 Aug 2011 12:13am
Antoine moved to JP, maybe that's why the others are closer?

Bjorn moved to Starboard and did better.
SeanAUS120
SeanAUS120
QLD
769 posts
QLD, 769 posts
4 Aug 2011 7:13am
GazMan said...

In your opinion Sean, what are the factors that have made the other guys so much more competitive and hungry than they were 3-4 years ago when Antoine was in control of many slalom finals?

Also, do you know if many of the top 16 PWA racers train for events in 40+ knots on their slalom kit?


Ok, this is gonna be LONG so bear with me! This is my take on what's happening with the level and how it's happened...

If we take the 'glory days' of slalom which arguably finished up in 2001 with Kevin finally beating Bjorn overall after 2,000 years of domination; what happened for the next 5-6 years was slalom disappeared and so did the tour and as a result the level went down, down, down…

I went to the Fuerte World Cup in 2006 and had never done a downwind slalom race in my life; finished 22nd and could barely gybe. Antoine was there, Bjorn was there ... but the overall level was SUPER low. There was also I think only about 4 slalom events that year and although the Top 5 guys were as good as now probably, the rest of us weren't that good at all.

Flick forward to 2011 and in this last 4 years they have slowly increased the amount of slalom events each year, increased the prizemoney, and now in the past 18 months increased the media package (ala live-stream and awesome commentary from yours truly !!).

What that has actually done is pushed a lot of the brands in to seeing the value of sponsoring riders specifically to do the PWA events and better their results at the expense of other types of windsurfing or events. I know at Point-7, we have generated a big surge in traffic across all our online channels just by making sure we have at least 4-6 riders at the PWA slalom events (even though our team is all super young up-and-comers, with no real Top-5 riders), so we sponsor more slalom guys rather than wave riders or formula sailors etc.

With the extra brand support that is around now for riders specifically for the PWA events (don't get me wrong, the budgets brands have for riders are SUPER low compared to years back, but I mean the actual gear and support directed specifically towards doing PWA is bigger than ever), coupled with the media package the PWA has I think it's really good for riders to get their own sponsors outside of the industry. Add that to the higher prizemoney and now you are starting to get 20-30 riders on the tour who are FULL-TIME pro's rather than just having the Top 5 as pro's and the rest just 50% pro / 50% working like a dog at a supermarket to afford some fins.

What happens when you get a lot more guys making a full-time living out of the sport compared to the 2004-2008 years? Guys start training SPECIFICALLY for certain conditions and that includes the +40 knots, yep.

Most of the French guys base themselves in Marseille or Gruissan or wherever it is in the south where it nukes 50-60 knots all winter. Ben van der Steen moved to Tarifa so he could train all last winter with Ludovic on the Loft Sails and also get some time in the windy conditions. I know Finian and Peter Volwater usually go to Gran Canaria before Fuerte for a month or so to train in 50 knots there … I myself went to Tenerife for a few weeks at the beginning of the year to train in super high winds (although I got skunked while I was there).

So yes… a lot of the top guys train specifically for certain conditions like +50 knots etc. Also most of us are developing sails half the year so at the same time we are training we might be testing the 5.0 and 5.5m sails so we are chasing high-wind locations for both reasons.

There is probably some more factors that have helped increase the level on the tour these days like more fin manufacturers producing much better fins than years past, better equipment across all the brands [even the small brands] and maybe more slalom events each year means more people put the effort in to train for them…. but I won't bore you all with more details.

Certainly it's a good time for windsurfing!
choco
choco
SA
4181 posts
SA, 4181 posts
4 Aug 2011 8:42am
Kimba said...

choco said...

Kimba said...

choco said...

Kimba said...

I know Bjorn has come close in previous years and Antoine has had some luck help him to the title, this year is no different. Antoine had a big catapult like last year.

Antoine looks like he has SOOOOO MUCH CONTROL in his races and is so consistent in his starts. Other guys boards are bucking all over the place, Antoines has stable trim. Even looking at leach twist in the rough water, most sailors leaches are flapping all over the place and working overtime, Antoines is more stable and breathing gently. Might have been the particular final but only he and a few others seemed comfortable when it really hit.


and this coming from a NP rider Antoine would win on any kit! last few years no one could get close to him, the field has caught up!


They sure have caught up - the competition can now reach the same leg of the race to actually see him go over the finish!


would you still be an Antoine groupie if he changed brands? think not


Antoine is a great athlete that does what other great athletes do - they make things that are quite difficult look pretty easy (even without a caddie, victor...). I doubt he will make any equipment changes soon as he has so much to do with the development of his gear and it definately work for him.
But hey, if he did part with Pryde after so many years(and world titles) I would still be in awe because he is an amazing sailor.

Would you still be in love with Ben if he left Loft?


That's all I wanted to hear, Antoine is one of my favourite sailors not because he uses NP sails but because the guy can sail as for Ben he was on Pryde last year and finished 14th overall now he's sitting 3rd, better epuipment? If he left Loft I wouldn't care because he's already proven that the sails are up there with the best.
Pryde are the biggest windsurfing company and can afford year after year to pay the best sailor to use their equipment goodluck to them the one positive is that their development that works filters down to other brands who haven't got the budget.
Anyway go out for a sail Tim that's what we are here for
GazMan
GazMan
WA
848 posts
WA, 848 posts
4 Aug 2011 8:58am
SeanAUS120 said...

GazMan said...

In your opinion Sean, what are the factors that have made the other guys so much more competitive and hungry than they were 3-4 years ago when Antoine was in control of many slalom finals?

Also, do you know if many of the top 16 PWA racers train for events in 40+ knots on their slalom kit?


Ok, this is gonna be LONG so bear with me! This is my take on what's happening with the level and how it's happened... (read above)

Many many thanks Sean for a superb, informative and right-to-the-point response!!!

Will be cheering for you in upcoming PWA events!

izymiester
izymiester
WA
325 posts
WA, 325 posts
5 Aug 2011 4:59pm
Bjorn Dunkerbeck struggled in 45 knot racing at Fuerteventura, not because the other guys were better than him.

at the startt of the pwa season you can register 6 sails and 3 boards and bjorn chose a 6.2 and the 90 isonic carbon as smallest equipment.

All the guys who beat bjorn were on 87 isonics and small highwind jp boards. And were using 5.5 sails.

The 90 is a great board but doesnt have the highwind shape like the other boards above. And the carbon makes it stiffer in the chop.

NP sailors in the final do make it difficult for bjorn to get a good start, and noticeably once albeau in lead and bjorn a few positions back, it seems other np sailors slow down more on jybes etc to make it hard for him to catchup

in lighter winds,this is why bjorn won last final and also came back strong at costa brava. He lives in gran canaria so highwinds shouldnt be a problem for him.

I witnessed bjorn pass albeau in a final at Aruba like he a was recreational sailor. Albeau does not do the same to bjorn.


Next year he said he would choose the 87 and 5.6 severne reflex so lets just wait and see.


GazMan
GazMan
WA
848 posts
WA, 848 posts
5 Aug 2011 5:29pm
izymiester said...

Bjorn Dunkerbeck struggled in 45 knot racing at Fuerteventura, not because the other guys were better than him.

at the startt of the pwa season you can register 6 sails and 3 boards and bjorn chose a 6.2 and the 90 isonic carbon as smallest equipment.

Isaac,
The video posted on page 1 of this topic which was winners final slalom elimination 8 shows Cyril Moussilmani overtaking Bjorn on the last leg just after gybing. Do you think this happened because Bjorn was having trouble with his 6.2 or was something else going on? (he certainly had more speed on the straights than anyone else before this!)
izymiester
izymiester
WA
325 posts
WA, 325 posts
5 Aug 2011 10:46pm
Basically the bigger gear was a handful on the outer marks with the wild chop and seas, aswell as bullet gusts.

Bjorn went wide and struggled to get going, while cyril went inside with smaller kit stole some wind and took off. Cyril was noticeably more comfortable and nimble in the situation. North sails went well in strong winds. But noticeably worse in other winds.

basically whoever can sheet in and accelerate away first has huge implications on positions. Bjorn was a machine on the inside marks but conservative on the outside due to larger kit and board style.


If you see taty frans stacking heaps of gybes then you know its rough. He is a genius at gybing from his freestyle background. At times up to 5 guys in the water at gybe mark.



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