It's good that DJ is ok, i know everyone will learn and be better for the experience.

LSD said...

planesailing said...

WITHOUT RISK THERE IS NO ADVENTURE !
Happy to offer my yacht or tender (RIB) for support vessel, next time.

Yeah right Paul....you have a $18,000 bill form your last adventure

Have you actualy tried to motor upwind or even hold position....in 50+ knt squalls....& then bring someone aboard.

Try it one day..... throw a life buoy & drogue over & go get it, you may have to do it sooner or latter

We can have plenty of adventure......BUT consider the risk....& particularly to those who have to come & get you after the adventure has gone wrong.

Totally agree with LSD on this one - you need to have an escape route and its unfair to put others at risk to rescue you when your adventure goes pear shaped. Although it would be best if we had DJ's full story before passing too harsh a judgment.

Glad to hear everyone is home safe and sound. As Phil said positives can be learned.......

It sounds like the real problem was DJ making a dodgy modification to his legrope attachment. He has no doubt learnt something from this and perhaps we all should.

It's great that everybody is safe but perhaps the real lesson is that no matter how experienced you are the ocean is a very lonely place without a board. I'll be double checking my leggie plug, string, swivels, velcro and legrope cord before I enter the ocean every time from now on.


Oh, and remind me to also take another person on a floaty thing with a motor if I ever do something like this........

I'd go the buddy system also. Where two pioneers are matched together on their skill/boards length and agree to paddle together.

For these longer/more dangerous downwinders I'd also suggest that all people taking part in the paddle attempt to regroup either every half hour or every 5 km.

Obviously everybody needs to have suitable equipment including: pfd's, suitable clothing and water supplies.

Those who are promoting a buddy system may not have been out in a true DW situation. There is no stopping and going back. You don't slow down and runners are that unpredictable that you will end up separated from your partners 9 times out of 10.

If it was not for the leash breaking DJ would have probably made it to the other side. Its great that this has brought to attention the use of PFD's and other devices but I don't see the point in the verbal bashing DJ is getting for taking on conditions that sound downright epic.

Dr Funk said...

Those who are promoting a buddy system may not have been out in a true DW situation. There is no stopping and going back. You don't slow down and runners are that unpredictable that you will end up separated from your partners 9 times out of 10.

If it was not for the leash breaking DJ would have probably made it to the other side. Its great that this has brought to attention the use of PFD's and other devices but I don't see the point in the verbal bashing DJ is getting for taking on conditions that sound downright epic.

Agree if DJ's leash had not broken we would be praising DJ (which I still am going to do anyway).

Also we do not even know the full story but yet are passing judgment and handing out tips left right and centre.

Lets hear from the horses mouth.

Zimbo Reagan said...

Dr Funk said...

Those who are promoting a buddy system may not have been out in a true DW situation. There is no stopping and going back. You don't slow down and runners are that unpredictable that you will end up separated from your partners 9 times out of 10.

If it was not for the leash breaking DJ would have probably made it to the other side. Its great that this has brought to attention the use of PFD's and other devices but I don't see the point in the verbal bashing DJ is getting for taking on conditions that sound downright epic.

Agree if DJ's leash had not broken we would be praising DJ (which I still am going to do anyway).

Also we do not even know the full story but yet are passing judgment and handing out tips left right and centre.

Lets hear from the horses mouth.

I don't think there has been wholesale DJ bashing going on here, there's still plenty of love and tremendous respect for the big guy so far as I can tell. I can only see one post critical of his choices, with maybe a couple other posts agreeing with that comment. And it's all valid as everyone has a right to an opinion.

But as for waiting to hear the full story before we discuss ways of improving safety, certainly DJ and the others involved in this adventure have plenty to offer and I look forward to hearing about it. However supposing DJ was to say that it all came down to the leash plug and that he took full responsibility... are you suggesting that would be case closed and we don't need to share tips or advice or to set up standard protocols or any other increased safety measures?

One way or another, legislators will enact laws sooner or later to curtail our fun. We can either get proactive and ensure to the best of our ability that no-one is badly hurt or worse while SUP'ing. Or we can suffer the consequences of a lost compadre and the fallout of harsh, constricting laws that suck all the fun out of what we love to do.

oliver said...

I'd go the buddy system also. Where two pioneers

Oliver, didn't you know that the simple word "pioneer"
draws the red thumb folk out of the closet

I believe DJ is the smart one here, not posting anything for public record until he knows where its all going.

Also shock and PTSD to consider, lets face it not a great afternoon at the office.

I dont believe Dean is playing the man, he is simply stating facts as he sees them from a different perspective and experience base.

Phill

LSD said...

Never done a single down winder ...ever, on water that is.
I've done about 50 or 60 from Winki to Apollo bay....in the air....with a hang glider....will that count?
It's the same thing...adventure seeking & weighing up the risk.

It doesn't count and is not the same at all.

Oliver is correct. If you adhere to preset rules regarding staying in contact and are prepared to go slow and sit on your board every now and then you can keep together. Its not an infallible arrangement but it does mitigate the risk somewhat.

However that is a secondary consideration. Having equipment you can rely on is a primary consideration. The leash failure appears to be the big problem here. Once that occurred and DJ was on his own the fact there was no buddy system in place compounded this and it got to the point where a rescue mission was needed.

Note.....
I said " sets us apart "
not " sets us above "
nothing wrong with gardeners or antiquers. lol.

Nobody is bashing DJ. Most of us are chatting fairly constructively about how to avoid problems in future. It's got nothing to do with bashing DJ.

A few stern cautions were applied but no more than a mother giving a kiddie a bollocking after he has wandered too close to a busy road.

I have done a few downwinders and spent heaps of time in unfeasibly windy seas. A buddy system can work provided the faster rider always slows down to match the slower rider. That's the essence of all group travel. The group only goes as fast as the slowest member.

Regrouping is only marginally useful. By the time you realise you've lost somebody it's too late.

If you want to be technical about this there are risk analysis techniques that can be used. You sit down and think about the risks in terms of:

Risk
Chance of happening
Consequences
Mitigation


eg:
Risk - Breaking leggie
Chance - Moderate
Consequences - Severe
Mitigation - Don't **** with your leggie. Use an extra strong one. Maybe use two.

Gorgo said...

Mitigation - Don't **** with your leggie.

This one point is the key - IMO.

If his leggy had of held there would be no issue at all. I think DJ may have been pushing the boundries in terms of leggy setup and paid the price for his bleeding edge design work. Those conditions probably weren't the best to test it out in though.

Good on you DJ, Camo and boys for having a go. Sounds to me like you were more than prepared for a bay crossing (it's not open ocean stuff - so you'll eventually get blown to shore somewhere).

Also, I reckon boats and conditions like that don't mix - you'll have a lot more problems with a boat in 50 knots of wind than a couple of guys on big surfboards (with legropes).

PTWoody said...

DILLIGAF2 said...
I say fair play to trying something new and not being a p*ssy unlike the PC world we are beginning to live in.

That's why I switched to Mac. Got sick of the PC world.

Mac, win 7, all the same these days anyway we digress.

Pretty epic conditions venturing out in those conditions. After reading all the hits on this topic, the support boat is the best advice given and the leggie issue another.

Now the big question is where the blo-dy hell are ya DJ

At the end of the day the main thing is, that all are save

Pioneers always get shot