SUP Surfing Comps Long or Short Board Criteria?

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OG SUP
OG SUP
VIC
3516 posts
VIC, 3516 posts
3 Apr 2011 10:19am
We have been to several surfing comps and the juding critera appears to change radically comp to comp.

The ISA judging critera apart from the significance placed on the paddle component appears to follow shortboard criteria radical moves with power and commitment in the pocket.

How would you rate the following as key components.

Layback cuttie
Roundhouse cuttie
Helicopter
Off the top
Vertical move
Length of ride
Cover up
Rail turn
Ability to go forehand and back hand
Tail slide
Cheater 5
Nose ride
Barrel
Flat Turn

Add your own keen to know what you think is a good scoring move!

Phill






Clarky
Clarky
QLD
295 posts
QLD, 295 posts
3 Apr 2011 10:28am
Pooman
husq2100
husq2100
QLD
2031 posts
QLD, 2031 posts
3 Apr 2011 12:03pm
dont forget the head dip (with bum poked right out).........

length of ride would be important to me if I was competing, its the only trick Ive got in my bag.

but seriuosly, when I saw one of the girls/womens heats at noosa, one rider got a good long wave to the beach, did some nice turns etc and got a 6.xx and another got a wave only have as long but with (IMO) more critical/powerfull turns and only scored a 4.xx

teatrea
teatrea
QLD
4177 posts
QLD, 4177 posts
3 Apr 2011 12:22pm
Sup surf judging reminds me of AFL umpiring , its open to interpritation. I rekon moves utilizing the paddle for powerfull turns should rate highest. Afterall its the paddle that sets sup apart from other forms.Ive got a move in my head , but sadly unlikely to ever pull it off . Picture this back hand , big rail turn off the bottom verticall up wave face , dig the paddle in and turn 180 Deg back towards foam and then pull into a nice barrell.Well the barrell is a bit extreme , but i rekon the other part could be done by someone with the skill.Maybee it already has , havent seen it though!
oliver
oliver
3952 posts
3952 posts
3 Apr 2011 11:45am
Paddle twirling
Swanie
Swanie
QLD
1372 posts
QLD, 1372 posts
3 Apr 2011 1:55pm
The Harry Potter
Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
3 Apr 2011 1:58pm
Length of ride and wave selection is very very important, but only if it is related to being a very ridable, workable, set wave, with good maneuvers thrown in.

But the "the long workable set wave" is merely a blank canvas. The wave selection and decent bottom turn might get you 1-2 points.

But throw in a short cover up (barrel) (2-4 points), followed with a round-house (2), regain speed (0.5), off the top vertically breaking into a little tail slide (2), more speed then a long smooth cuttie (1) finished off with a little floater near the shore (1). A 9.5+ !!

Same wave with a nose ride (2+1.5), cutback (1), cheater 5 (1), flat cut back (0.5), trim down the line (0.5), dodgey flat floater glide to finish (0.5). So probably a 7 in my mind. Add in a helicopter, you might get up to 8.5 off me.

laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
3 Apr 2011 2:23pm
what gets me is they have the 'critera 'which shouldn't score relentless non- functional tail sides that well, but the guys doing them always get the scores.

you certainly wouldn't do very well in a shortboard comp tail siding all over the place.

rails and carving rule
husq2100
husq2100
QLD
2031 posts
QLD, 2031 posts
3 Apr 2011 2:24pm
paddling back out should be maybe a rule.....seen some pros prone paddling back out and dont agree with it
Swanie
Swanie
QLD
1372 posts
QLD, 1372 posts
3 Apr 2011 2:35pm
husq2100 said...

paddling back out should be maybe a rule.....seen some pros prone paddling back out and dont agree with it


I think and I could be wrong that it states that the rider will only be awarded an average score is the form in the transition is poor. That is the paddle back out.

Rules listed below: (bold print has the condition)

ISA SUP surfing rules taken from ISA Rule Book – www.isasurf.org
a. Stand-Up Paddle (SUP) Surfing
Event Rules:
i. Introduction: SUP surfing is unique and can be done many ways but for competition it is important to set criteria's that set it apart from just long boarding. Only a single blade paddle is to be used in SUP. The paddle is a tool and a big part of the sport therefore it is not just used to help catch a wave, but is necessary as a tool [aid] for riding the waves [similar to a Ski pole when skiing]. Too many times we see great long boarders just catching the wave using the paddle, then ripping into their maneuvers without using the paddle any further in any practical [beneficial to performance] way. Often it is just held.
ii. Judging Criteria: A surfer must demonstrate board handling skills in the transition phase [description below] and the surfing phase [description below] of their performance, for it to be considered complete. A surfer must perform radical controlled maneuvers, using the paddle as a key tool, in the critical sections of a wave with speed, power and flow to maximize scoring potential. Innovative / progressive surfing as well as variety of repertoire [maneuvers], wave negotiation and use of the paddle to increase the intensity of the maneuvers, will all be taken into account when awarding points for SUP surfing. The SUP surfer who executes these criteria with the maximum degree of difficulty and commitment on the waves will be rewarded with the higher scores. For StandUp Paddle Surfing [SUP] a wave is deemed to be begun, when in the opinion of the judges, the rider is no longer solely under paddle power but rather has harnessed and begun to be carried along by the power of the wave.
iii. SUP Scoring Considerations:
1. The judging scale will be 10 points with normal ISA contest rules applying.
2. The aggregate of the best rides will decide the final score for each surfer and interferences adjudicated according to the ISA Surfing Rulebook.
3. Good SUP transition time [end of one wave to paddle-in to next one] should be spent standing and paddling with good technique and stable wave negotiation. Kneeling, lying or sitting whilst paddling, unless necessary for safety is regarded as bad SUP form. Note the critical element: To the best of a rider's ability he / she are expected to stand up on the board at all times throughout the heat, unless the situation of safety dictates otherwise.
4. Entry into the wave should be by paddling in the standing position to enable the maximum score.
5. Surfing – average scores for all maneuvers will be allocated unless the paddle is used as a pivot or tool in maneuvers, then power, radical moves, critical sections and degree of difficulty are the deciding factors.
b. Competitors will start from the beach unless instructed otherwise by the Contest Director.
c. Using the paddle: The paddle is correctly used in SUP surfing to do three main things: it is used in turns as a brace, a pivot, and a force multiplier. A surfer will be scored higher when he uses the paddle in some or all of these three ways to achieve sharper or more powerful turns. Tricks such as twirling or otherwise using the paddle in a non-functional manner will earn little or no extra score for the surfer.
d. Traditional long board surfing compared to progressive SUP surfing techniques: Because the paddle allows large SUP boards to be turned with high rates of speed and power, stand-up paddle surfing is deemed to be, at the competition level, a performance- centered branch of surfing, much like conventional short boarding. Footwork, nose riding and style points will be scored, but this will be done in their relationship to the criteria of degree of difficulty and critical nature of wave positioning.
e. If a rider cannot sustain the standing position throughout the heat [in transition and surfing], this will be regarded in the same manner as =
improper use of the paddle and judges will only allocate average scores to his / her performances at best. This fact should be a mandatory part of the contestant's pre-heat briefing.
e. Officials Responsibility: As SUP is a new discipline of surfing in terms of competition, it is the responsibility of every Contest Director and Judge to promote the above ideas and ISA Rulebook criteria, to ensure all competitors develop a standard approach and understanding of what is expected from an elite performer in SUP.
62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
3 Apr 2011 1:19pm
Theres no reason you cant ride a 9 foot sup and mix new with old school moves and I am with Lacey those tail slides make me sick and look so wrong
standupper
standupper
387 posts
387 posts
3 Apr 2011 2:00pm
IMO Tail slides should be part of any well rounded paddle surfers repertoire but not again and again on the same wave.
62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
3 Apr 2011 2:34pm
They remind me of a kook trying to turn for the first time before he/she figures out what rails are for

If I was judging I would deduct a point,thats how much I load them[}:)]
log man
log man
VIC
8289 posts
VIC, 8289 posts
3 Apr 2011 5:52pm
Helicopters for me, Instant disqualification!
teatrea
teatrea
QLD
4177 posts
QLD, 4177 posts
3 Apr 2011 7:36pm
Mac and Lacey are on the ball , leave the wishy washy stuff.Carving rail turns and manouvers in the critical section.Now how do you do that!
billboard
billboard
QLD
2819 posts
QLD, 2819 posts
3 Apr 2011 8:05pm
laceys lane said...

what gets me is they have the 'critera 'which shouldn't score relentless non- functional tail sides that well, but the guys doing them always get the scores.

you certainly wouldn't do very well in a shortboard comp tail siding all over the place.

rails and carving rule


Agree 100 % - any dickhed can put little fins in their sup and slide the tail out - no skill required at all.
CMC
CMC
QLD
3954 posts
CMC CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
3 Apr 2011 8:14pm
billboard said...

laceys lane said...

what gets me is they have the 'critera 'which shouldn't score relentless non- functional tail sides that well, but the guys doing them always get the scores.

you certainly wouldn't do very well in a shortboard comp tail siding all over the place.

rails and carving rule


Agree 100 % - any dickhed can put little fins in their sup and slide the tail out - no skill required at all.



Agree also. Gay flat tail slides = SOFT. Power slides on the other hand AKA Matt Hoy types are unreal. Put some big fins in ya girls......... Big fins don't make a board stiff, they make it go fast, the faster you go the looser your board.

Paddling across waves except to link across a gutter or a flat dead section is terrible as well.

I kind of thought the judging criteria summary was always to award the surfer that surfs with commitment performing the most radical turns in the most critical parts of the wave with flow, speed and variety.
pmorgan1974
pmorgan1974
NSW
1080 posts
NSW, 1080 posts
4 Apr 2011 12:44pm
On this topic - what should score higher.

1- A wave that has good length, but with many critical moves done on it

or

2- Shorter wave (not as good a wave) but with 2 or 3 rail to rail carves, and good finishing move.
goatman
goatman
NSW
2151 posts
NSW, 2151 posts
4 Apr 2011 1:32pm
CMC said...
I kind of thought the judging criteria summary was always to award the surfer that surfs with commitment performing the most radical turns in the most critical parts of the wave with flow, speed and variety.


Pretty much sums it up.

On topic - high performance SUPs surf very differently to longboards and therefore should have a judging criteria more closely aligned to shortboarding IMO. SUPs will gradually move more towards a drawn out version of shortboard surfing as designs and techniques improve I reckon.

Contests such as Noosa, the Snowy, Malfunction will probably favour longboard style moves while the NSW titles/Aussies would have shortboard judges I would have thought since they are run by surfing Australia/NSW.

Regarding tails slides - it's interesting to check some of the best guys in the country do them regularly in small waves. I would suggest it's for a few reasons:

1. To score well in contests the board needs to rotate at least 180 degrees through most turns.
2. This is sometimes difficult to do in a carving fashion on a SUP - which is why carve turns should score much more highly.
3. Most SUP designs don't have enough rocker therefore it is necessary to do slide and or pivot turns to get then to swing 180 degrees quickly through an on the face turn.

OG SUP
OG SUP
VIC
3516 posts
VIC, 3516 posts
4 Apr 2011 3:33pm
pmorgan1974 said...

On this topic - what should score higher.

1- A wave that has good length, but with many critical moves done on it

or

2- Shorter wave (not as good a wave) but with 2 or 3 rail to rail carves, and good finishing move.


Option 2 everytime.

Your not there with your 11'6 trying to step off on the beach to keep your hair dry?

Phill


husq2100
husq2100
QLD
2031 posts
QLD, 2031 posts
4 Apr 2011 8:14pm
goatman said...

CMC said...
I kind of thought the judging criteria summary was always to award the surfer that surfs with commitment performing the most radical turns in the most critical parts of the wave with flow, speed and variety.


Pretty much sums it up.

On topic - high performance SUPs surf very differently to longboards and therefore should have a judging criteria more closely aligned to shortboarding IMO. SUPs will gradually move more towards a drawn out version of shortboard surfing as designs and techniques improve I reckon.

Contests such as Noosa, the Snowy, Malfunction will probably favour longboard style moves while the NSW titles/Aussies would have shortboard judges I would have thought since they are run by surfing Australia/NSW.

Regarding tails slides - it's interesting to check some of the best guys in the country do them regularly in small waves. I would suggest it's for a few reasons:

1. To score well in contests the board needs to rotate at least 180 degrees through most turns.
2. This is sometimes difficult to do in a carving fashion on a SUP - which is why carve turns should score much more highly.
3. Most SUP designs don't have enough rocker therefore it is necessary to do slide and or pivot turns to get then to swing 180 degrees quickly through an on the face turn.




Good stuff GM
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
4 Apr 2011 8:36pm
goatman said...

CMC said...
I kind of thought the judging criteria summary was always to award the surfer that surfs with commitment performing the most radical turns in the most critical parts of the wave with flow, speed and variety.


Pretty much sums it up.

On topic - high performance SUPs surf very differently to longboards and therefore should have a judging criteria more closely aligned to shortboarding IMO. SUPs will gradually move more towards a drawn out version of shortboard surfing as designs and techniques improve I reckon.

Contests such as Noosa, the Snowy, Malfunction will probably favour longboard style moves while the NSW titles/Aussies would have shortboard judges I would have thought since they are run by surfing Australia/NSW.

Regarding tails slides - it's interesting to check some of the best guys in the country do them regularly in small waves. I would suggest it's for a few reasons:

1. To score well in contests the board needs to rotate at least 180 degrees through most turns.
2. This is sometimes difficult to do in a carving fashion on a SUP - which is why carve turns should score much more highly.
3. Most SUP designs don't have enough rocker therefore it is necessary to do slide and or pivot turns to get then to swing 180 degrees quickly through an on the face turn.




i hear what you are saying, but by scoring those slides, they aren't helping one bit. now i know all those top guys know how to surf rail and i'm not bagging them, gee if you can a score from them you would be silly not too,but looking at point 3, it almost reads like comp judging is holding back hp sup designs?
cheers

ps a guy like say dogman is a seabreeze legend and it's not for his tail slides.
dtm
dtm
NSW
1610 posts
dtm dtm
NSW, 1610 posts
4 Apr 2011 8:48pm
[
ps a guy like say dogman is a seabreeze legend and it's not for his tail slides.


yeah its for meat pies

laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
4 Apr 2011 8:58pm
dtm said...

[
ps a guy like say dogman is a seabreeze legend and it's not for his tail slides.


yeah its for meat pies




haha, the meat pies are for anti tail slide ballast
62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
4 Apr 2011 7:10pm
OG SUP said...

pmorgan1974 said...

On this topic - what should score higher.

1- A wave that has good length, but with many critical moves done on it

or

2- Shorter wave (not as good a wave) but with 2 or 3 rail to rail carves, and good finishing move.


Option 2 everytime.

Your not there with your 11'6 trying to step off on the beach to keep your hair dry?

Phill





Hmm how long you been surfing for pmorgan?

OG - I would not score the following,3 6 9 10 11 and 14,all lame moves in my book!
hope that helps
camo hosk
camo hosk
VIC
613 posts
VIC, 613 posts
4 Apr 2011 9:17pm
If a competitor in a contest prone paddles back out to the line up
I don't reckon they should be scored at all on their next wave.
This would make sure all the stand up paddle skills of the surfer
Are on display.
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
4 Apr 2011 9:19pm
62mac said...

OG SUP said...

pmorgan1974 said...

On this topic - what should score higher.

1- A wave that has good length, but with many critical moves done on it

or

2- Shorter wave (not as good a wave) but with 2 or 3 rail to rail carves, and good finishing move.


Option 2 everytime.

Your not there with your 11'6 trying to step off on the beach to keep your hair dry?

Phill





Hmm how long you been surfing for pmorgan?


hmm part 2. i don't understand option 1- a long wave with many critical moves which to me would mean tight carving moves under the lip ,over the lip and in the pocket etc- thats kelly, fanning league stuff- how could you beat that?
62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
4 Apr 2011 7:31pm
camo hosk said...

If a competitor in a contest prone paddles back out to the line up
I don't reckon they should be scored at all on their next wave.
This would make sure all the stand up paddle skills of the surfer
Are on display.


Nope, its NOT how you get out there,its how you destroy the wave
I look at every wave like a launch pad[}:)][}:)][}:)]
OG SUP
OG SUP
VIC
3516 posts
VIC, 3516 posts
4 Apr 2011 10:31pm
laceys lane said...

62mac said...

OG SUP said...

pmorgan1974 said...

On this topic - what should score higher.

1- A wave that has good length, but with many critical moves done on it

or

2- Shorter wave (not as good a wave) but with 2 or 3 rail to rail carves, and good finishing move.


Option 2 everytime.

Your not there with your 11'6 trying to step off on the beach to keep your hair dry?

Phill





Hmm how long you been surfing for pmorgan?


hmm part 2. i don't understand option 1- a long wave with many critical moves which to me would mean tight carving moves under the lip ,over the lip and in the pocket etc- thats kelly, fanning league stuff- how could you beat that?


Lacey I took Option 1 to be what I saw score highly at noosa flat turns with little rail to rail for 100m stepping off on the sand, v Option 2 balls to the wall rip it as hard as you can rail to rail and finish it off with skill and control 50m.
OG SUP
OG SUP
VIC
3516 posts
VIC, 3516 posts
4 Apr 2011 10:32pm
camo hosk said...

If a competitor in a contest prone paddles back out to the line up
I don't reckon they should be scored at all on their next wave.
This would make sure all the stand up paddle skills of the surfer
Are on display.


Totally agree Camo unless the conditions are that heavy thats its impossible to do so!

Phill
OG SUP
OG SUP
VIC
3516 posts
VIC, 3516 posts
4 Apr 2011 10:35pm
62mac said...

OG SUP said...

pmorgan1974 said...

On this topic - what should score higher.

1- A wave that has good length, but with many critical moves done on it

or

2- Shorter wave (not as good a wave) but with 2 or 3 rail to rail carves, and good finishing move.


Option 2 everytime.

Your not there with your 11'6 trying to step off on the beach to keep your hair dry?

Phill





Hmm how long you been surfing for pmorgan?

OG - I would not score the following,3 6 9 10 11 and 14,all lame moves in my book!
hope that helps


Agree Mac
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