Cobra factory

> 10 years ago
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JasonProsser
JasonProsser
NSW
268 posts
NSW, 268 posts
10 Feb 2013 10:17am
After reading this thread for a few days now, I found this movie and thought it adds a bit of perspective into how a board is made in one of the Asian board factories. I was pleasantly surprised at the professional setup and it definately dispelled the mental imagery I had when thinking of so called "cheap Chinese board manufacturers".
Hope some of you take the time to watch.
E T
E T
QLD
2286 posts
E T E T
QLD, 2286 posts
10 Feb 2013 9:38am
Thanks for posting Jason. Being from the "old" school, it was good to see the steps in making an epoxy board. It has educated me. I guess not all "Asian" made boards are of the same quality just like not all Aussie made boards are of the same quality.
We should all do our homework before buying.
Thanks again.
ET.
AA
AA
NSW
2167 posts
AA AA
NSW, 2167 posts
10 Feb 2013 10:57am
Every country in the world has a 'mixed bag' of production quality available.

Labelling one country good or bad over a couple of factories is misleading.
The Cobra factory has a very good reputation, but it has little to do with Thailand.
It is how the factories are run that ultimately determines the quality, wether it is local shapers here or the myriad of options available in China.

There are plenty of good factories in China.
Boardworks boards have always had production in China and they made C4 boards up until last year. We have rarely see any quality issues from either of these brands or the factories they use in China. There are plenty of other brands getting good quality of China.

As DJ stated many of the bigger brands use a couple of different factories and often in different countries in case one goes down due to adverse weather or political unrest.

Every brand has its issues no matter where they source their product.
China pops up more than other countries purely by sheer volume of the number of production facilities available there.

Quality comes from the business model employed, not the country of origin.
Moving a factory to Vietnam (often to reduce the labour cost) or Thailand will not improve quality on its own.

Reading through this thread however it would appear that it may convince come customers that they are some how getting a better quality product.

Labelling all production out of China as one quality is like labelling all people who surf SUPS as clowns
ShireSUP
ShireSUP
NSW
982 posts
NSW, 982 posts
10 Feb 2013 12:18pm
AkeG said...
Pretty sure Starboard sup's made in Thailand @ Cobra factory. Have owned a few and they are as tough n' durable as they come.


Also have Fanatic sup's (made in Thailand) equally as well-built as Starboard IMO ... tough as nails.


Am curious about the JP Australia boards country of origin....


Owned and operated by Neil Pryde whose big factory is based in Hong Kong but with another in Thailand. Am quite interested in their boards, look like well-thought out designs.

Maybe it's like Naish, whose bamboo-decked boards are apparently made in China and the others AST construction in Thailand.

Who knows who or what to believe? If you're proud of your product made in China (like Suplove seems to be) just come out and be honest about where it's from and how it's built.


Just want a good product, don't care as much about cost I will (and have) paid plenty for a quality build.





My new JP says made in Thailand for what its worth
CMC
CMC
QLD
3954 posts
CMC CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
10 Feb 2013 11:41am
One of the main reasons Cobra has a great reputation is the use of technology in its processes. Take for example the video above, you will see that they are cutting up big blocks of EPS to use as blanks.

EPS foam is fused by steam, when you have big blocks like this what happens is that the steam does not reach the centre of the block as well as the outside. This creates unfuse EPS pellets and differing density throughout the block. When this foam is cut on shaping machines they stick plastic to the blank so that the air will not suck through. In a nutshell, if a blank sucks air, it will suck water.

What Cobra has is its own EPS facility worth a very large sum of money. When a board goes to serial production and is moulded a specific mould for the EPS blank in created. This is close tolerance and allows the core to be as some companies call it 'waterproof', 'securecell' etc Eric etc.

What happens in a lower tech factories is that they use cheap block foam, they then insert fin boxes, Fcs plugs directly into it without reinforcement. You hit the sand, the box cracks and then the board instantly fills with water. You get it repaired but the moisture causes delam. Game over.

Better quality manufacturers have developed ways to deal with the block foam in both sourcing the best foam they can find and developing laminating techniques beyond normal standards.

Combine the core with high tech advanced composite techniques and that is why the product is beyond that available in other factories especially where people chase price.
teatrea
teatrea
QLD
4177 posts
QLD, 4177 posts
10 Feb 2013 11:54am
Good explanation CMC.People who buy cheap stuff will always try to justify it by saying crap like its all the same , made in same country , same materials ect ect ect. Purely and simply because they dont want to look like a dick for buying crap. If you buy cheap gear because its all you can afford and you dont expect to much from it fair enough But folks their is a reason its cheap , cause its cheap
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
10 Feb 2013 12:02pm
JasonProsser said...
After reading this thread for a few days now, I found this movie and thought it adds a bit of perspective into how a board is made in one of the Asian board factories. I was pleasantly surprised at the professional setup and it definately dispelled the mental imagery I had when thinking of so called "cheap Chinese board manufacturers".
Hope some of you take the time to watch.




yeah jason. its a good vid and i would be happy to get a board from that factory from the footage shown
riverider
riverider
TAS
1112 posts
TAS, 1112 posts
11 Feb 2013 9:45pm
I've had boards from cobra and boards from "china" and have been happy with both, I've have had some problems and I know of others that have had problems with boards from cobra but with sheer volume of boards that come out of there you are going to get some that slip through with the odd defect but on the whole the brand has sorted it out quickly and I am sure others have had problems with boards from other factories, that is always going to happen.
I did contact cobra to ask if they could tell me what brands come out of there, but no reply as yet.
I also contacted anaconda if they could tell me where guy leach boards are made, they told me they can't release that information !
Freesup
Freesup
13 posts
13 posts
22 Mar 2013 6:07am
I have read that Sic Maui are made in Thailand, but I'm not sure that is in Cobra, someone know it?

Hobie Boards are made in China...

Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
22 Mar 2013 10:54am
In my opinion, China's reputation for poor quality (in general) isn't so much about quality of the skillset or labour, but more the fact that in many cases, sub-quality materials are used and very little r&d have gone into the designs. Many of the 'Chinese-made' boards I've seen over the years (sup & ws) have been finished great, but lack strength & design have let them down. In saying that, although I would generalise any 'Chinese-made' product as being mass-produced & poor quality (based on the majority), this doesn't mean that there are possibly many manufacturing companies in China that produce a high level of quality.
JBFletch
JBFletch
QLD
1287 posts
QLD, 1287 posts
22 Mar 2013 11:06am
Alot of other action sports, also have their products made in places such as COBRA.

There is a factory called playmaker that pretty much make, whatever COBRA doesn't.

The fact that product can be produced, shapes altered and changes made on a overall cheaper basis is the winner.

I know of a brand (not SUP related) that moved production to the above factory because shape profile could be altered and tweaked better then at the original factory in europe.

Sadly the cost of labour in these countries also helps the overall outcome.

As AA mentioned, the cheap china knockoffs are a different story to Thailand made products.

I can't comment on custom made boards, but my theory is why would you try making your own shape when the big brands have huge R&D budgets and absolute ripper R&D teams.

I'm happy with what i ride, if you are too. then happy days.
mikerosekids
mikerosekids
NSW
13 posts
NSW, 13 posts
22 Mar 2013 8:26pm
Hi riverrider
I have a 2012 ATR 12" from Hobie that has a made in China sticker on it so add that to the list not sure if its made in the Cobra factory
Freesup
Freesup
13 posts
13 posts
22 Mar 2013 8:53pm
A lot of China factorys is hi quality, all Apple products is from China. But in SUPs I don't think is a great quality yet.

Neilpryde Group is in China, made Cabrinha, JP Austrália, Imagine and more, but is a own company.

The Cobra factory is the best factory to made a SUP in large scale.
SIC Maui and Hobie have a custom boards made in EUA.

Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23651 posts
WA, 23651 posts
22 Mar 2013 11:55pm
JBFletch said...
Sadly the cost of labour in these countries also helps the overall outcome.



Yes sadly the labour does affect the outcome.
I have repaired a LOT of windsurfing boards where glass was not fully wet out with resin and they have (strangely enough!) snapped or started to delam right there.

Many Cobra made boards have areas missing resin, they fail, and warranty is denied.

It is really damn easy to squeegee it across the glass properly and vaccuum bagging will ensure resin travels even further to self correct those mistakes a bit but they still occur. They need to start honouring warranty and telling to workers to slow down a tad.

BTW sorry FreeSUP, JP are made in Cobra factory also even though they are part of NeilPryde group
Freesup
Freesup
13 posts
13 posts
23 Mar 2013 4:38am
100% agree Mark _australia.
Massive scale did a fail boards.
I will looking carefully for my new SUP, maybe a Sic Maui Bullet...

all the best guys
boardbumps
boardbumps
NSW
698 posts
NSW, 698 posts
24 Mar 2013 12:22am
I see CMC is up to his usual trick of bagging block EPS foam.

I have taken him to task over this before and will remind everyone that EPS block foam is GOOD foam.

I buy from a company in Brisbane that makes block EPS foam. They use a vacuum system to get the steam into the mould.

I would suggest that most companies that make Expanded Polystyrene now use pre-expanded bead. The company that buy from does.
This makes excellent quality BLOCK foam, with even density thru the block.

It takes them 15seconds to expand a 15 foot block using vacuum.

This is the latest technology for expanding EPS.
The machinary is made in China and exported all over the world.

The major problem that occurs expanding EPS is if you want Higher density foam roughly over 24kg.

Injecting steam under pressure which is old technology takes to long and uneven expansion can occur.

Are you talking about steam in jection for your good eps foam blanks CMC?
Don't worry its just semantics.

I take core samples from all my BLOCK eps and have done so since 1986.

My thoughts on the China manufacturing quality problem are that the importers do not know how to ride a SUP let alone know what is a good design.

I reckon that they don't even know what density foam is used let alone know what glass is used. So there will be problems.

They refuse to employ a good designer and fall into the trap of using the
"inhouse chinese design team"
The only competitive advantage they have between themselves is price. My board is cheaper than yours so mine is better.

Like most importers they are really only interested in how much do I have to pay for this item and how much can I sell it for.

But I think that the cheap China imports are a relatively good thing.

They have replaced the second hand market and actually encourage new paddlers to get into the sport.

A new board is a much better bargain than a secondhand board for a similar price.

JBFletch
JBFletch
QLD
1287 posts
QLD, 1287 posts
24 Mar 2013 8:30am
Mark _australia said...
JBFletch said...
Sadly the cost of labour in these countries also helps the overall outcome.



Yes sadly the labour does affect the outcome.
I have repaired a LOT of windsurfing boards where glass was not fully wet out with resin and they have (strangely enough!) snapped or started to delam right there.

Many Cobra made boards have areas missing resin, they fail, and warranty is denied.

It is really damn easy to squeegee it across the glass properly and vaccuum bagging will ensure resin travels even further to self correct those mistakes a bit but they still occur. They need to start honouring warranty and telling to workers to slow down a tad.

BTW sorry FreeSUP, JP are made in Cobra factory also even though they are part of NeilPryde group


I agree this does occur, but if you think about the amount of boards produced - how many boards that last well past their expected lifetime, i think it still out ways the amount of higher cost production custom style boards and their lifetime.

I've had a tonne of products form the cobra and playmaker factory and also a lot of custom made boards.
Sorry to say but the Cobra's have all outlasted.
boardbumps
boardbumps
NSW
698 posts
NSW, 698 posts
24 Mar 2013 10:33am
While I agree with fletchs latest comment, I have to disagree.

Custom manufacture really is all about experience with the chosen materials.

The first Cobra board I ever came across was at Kalbarri river on a crankin windy day.

The river is agreat place for flat water. This fellow and his wife turned up to go windsurfing. They were German and had these unbelievabley light and hard boards for their time (around 1982-3). I asked where they came from, The Cobra factory was the reply. Where is that? Thailand.

I had been playing around with epoxy and styrofoam for a bout a year, but these boards showed me the right direction to head in.

Usually when you buy a custom board you are looking for a better shape fit and a lighter board overall.

So I reckon it is a bit ingenuous of you to say that the Cobra boards lasted longer. lasted longer compared to what type of construction and what about a weight comparison?
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