Select to expand quoteRamona said..
Thanks. That's excellent!
Yep, the windy tracker first came out about 5 years ago, done by a real keen and clever Hungarian sailor who is obviously a computer geek.
It is the tracker that most people who are not doing the race this year look at.
He does it for free btw.
The CYCA just don't give a ****.
Even yellow brick is better.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..julesmoto said..Chris 249 said..
... they are well up with the modern specialist shorthanders that are shorter overall, but much lighter and not much shorter on the waterline.
Speaking of modern specialist shorthanders here is an interesting test of a Sunfast like a few in the race.
The full scow bow doesn't seem to like the chop and you would think it would slow the boat upwind but he specifically says that it doesn't. You can see it wanting to get up on plane downwind but not quite enough wind that day. Would have been flying last night across Bass Strait with 35 knots up the arse.
I looked over one at a Middle Harbour Yacht club boat show and another at Church Point and you wouldn't catch me off shore in one overnight. Not even a moderately rough night like last night. Everything is so light and insubstantial not to mention exposed. He compliments the two finger tiller effort required for the twin rudders but imagine hitting anything bigger than a Coke bottle at speed.
Pretty much the only thing I liked for offshore use is the window that permits viewing the sails from the chart table.
Not sure if the water ballast is legal in the Hobart but you wouldn't want anything to go wrong so that the ballast ended up on the leeward side.
I seriously doubt that the boat would hold together if rolled. Torn fibreglass everywhere.
Shades of Nexba?
The Sun Fasts are doing Hobarts, Fastnets and Transatlantics so must be pretty tough.
I am disappointed with tests like the Matthew Sheahan one in the vid; like so many in the industry he seems to be obsessed with the pro scene, hence the many references to IMOCAs which are obviously an influence in the Sun Fast design - but so must conventional IRC/ORC boats. Arguably, as the agent implies, the reason shorthanding is taking off is that they have moved AWAY from the pro-style designs.
I do tend to think that the full bow is basically the result of packing a litre into a 750ml bottle, and it's actually better to just make the boat longer for the same beam, displacement, rig, engine, gear etc by lengthening and sharpening the bow. The Sun Fast is actually proportionately heavier than the NS38 Inukshuk (which I didn't realise. although I knew they are much heavier than some older boats) and has more beam.
The funny thing is that it was only about two years ago that the opposite - wave piercing bows - was all the rage and the sailing press went ga-ga about them without actually trying to analyse them properly, just as they seem to be going ape about scows this season.
Looking at ORC certs, the NS38 Inukshuk has a downwind VMG of 8.12 knots in 20 knots of breeze compared to Transcendence (a successful local 3300) at 8.20, which seems about right looking at how well each of them went while square running. Upwind in 20 the 3300 is .2 knots quicker in 20 knots of breeze according to ORC. Where the Sunfast does really against the NS38 is in hard reaches, when it's supposedly a knot quicker. Upwind in the light, the two boats have the same ORC speed 'till 12 knots.
As noted earlier, I find it encouraging to see the two old dacron-sailed boats in the SH division hanging in their with exotic-ragged new boats. And Pacman, the Young 11, is showing just what an amazing design it is.
From the designer of the modifications
Pacman started out as a Young 11data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
We redesigned the rig (increased length / carbon), sail plan (squaretop), added prod, new keel / bulb / rudder, added water ballast, and increased length by 300 mm (12") to smooth out the wave train. She was only re-launched a week ago. S2H is her first real sea trial really.
They are sailing beautfully.
Dibley Marine - Yacht Designers
Select to expand quotelydia said..Chris 249 said..julesmoto said..Chris 249 said..
... they are well up with the modern specialist shorthanders that are shorter overall, but much lighter and not much shorter on the waterline.
Speaking of modern specialist shorthanders here is an interesting test of a Sunfast like a few in the race.
The full scow bow doesn't seem to like the chop and you would think it would slow the boat upwind but he specifically says that it doesn't. You can see it wanting to get up on plane downwind but not quite enough wind that day. Would have been flying last night across Bass Strait with 35 knots up the arse.
I looked over one at a Middle Harbour Yacht club boat show and another at Church Point and you wouldn't catch me off shore in one overnight. Not even a moderately rough night like last night. Everything is so light and insubstantial not to mention exposed. He compliments the two finger tiller effort required for the twin rudders but imagine hitting anything bigger than a Coke bottle at speed.
Pretty much the only thing I liked for offshore use is the window that permits viewing the sails from the chart table.
Not sure if the water ballast is legal in the Hobart but you wouldn't want anything to go wrong so that the ballast ended up on the leeward side.
I seriously doubt that the boat would hold together if rolled. Torn fibreglass everywhere.
Shades of Nexba?
The Sun Fasts are doing Hobarts, Fastnets and Transatlantics so must be pretty tough.
I am disappointed with tests like the Matthew Sheahan one in the vid; like so many in the industry he seems to be obsessed with the pro scene, hence the many references to IMOCAs which are obviously an influence in the Sun Fast design - but so must conventional IRC/ORC boats. Arguably, as the agent implies, the reason shorthanding is taking off is that they have moved AWAY from the pro-style designs.
I do tend to think that the full bow is basically the result of packing a litre into a 750ml bottle, and it's actually better to just make the boat longer for the same beam, displacement, rig, engine, gear etc by lengthening and sharpening the bow. The Sun Fast is actually proportionately heavier than the NS38 Inukshuk (which I didn't realise. although I knew they are much heavier than some older boats) and has more beam.
The funny thing is that it was only about two years ago that the opposite - wave piercing bows - was all the rage and the sailing press went ga-ga about them without actually trying to analyse them properly, just as they seem to be going ape about scows this season.
Looking at ORC certs, the NS38 Inukshuk has a downwind VMG of 8.12 knots in 20 knots of breeze compared to Transcendence (a successful local 3300) at 8.20, which seems about right looking at how well each of them went while square running. Upwind in 20 the 3300 is .2 knots quicker in 20 knots of breeze according to ORC. Where the Sunfast does really against the NS38 is in hard reaches, when it's supposedly a knot quicker. Upwind in the light, the two boats have the same ORC speed 'till 12 knots.
As noted earlier, I find it encouraging to see the two old dacron-sailed boats in the SH division hanging in their with exotic-ragged new boats. And Pacman, the Young 11, is showing just what an amazing design it is.
From the designer of the modifications
Pacman started out as a Young 11data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
We redesigned the rig (increased length / carbon), sail plan (squaretop), added prod, new keel / bulb / rudder, added water ballast, and increased length by 300 mm (12") to smooth out the wave train. She was only re-launched a week ago. S2H is her first real sea trial really.
They are sailing beautfully.
Dibley Marine - Yacht Designers
Thanks for that. I think she sold a while ago for about $60k in very good nick. If she was doing as well as she is for that sort of money I'd be very annoyed I didn't grab her at the time! There's a lot of money in the work she has received.
Isn't her current owner the guy who had her and did very well with her when she was much newer?
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..lydia said..Chris 249 said..julesmoto said..Chris 249 said..
... they are well up with the modern specialist shorthanders that are shorter overall, but much lighter and not much shorter on the waterline.
Speaking of modern specialist shorthanders here is an interesting test of a Sunfast like a few in the race.
The full scow bow doesn't seem to like the chop and you would think it would slow the boat upwind but he specifically says that it doesn't. You can see it wanting to get up on plane downwind but not quite enough wind that day. Would have been flying last night across Bass Strait with 35 knots up the arse.
I looked over one at a Middle Harbour Yacht club boat show and another at Church Point and you wouldn't catch me off shore in one overnight. Not even a moderately rough night like last night. Everything is so light and insubstantial not to mention exposed. He compliments the two finger tiller effort required for the twin rudders but imagine hitting anything bigger than a Coke bottle at speed.
Pretty much the only thing I liked for offshore use is the window that permits viewing the sails from the chart table.
Not sure if the water ballast is legal in the Hobart but you wouldn't want anything to go wrong so that the ballast ended up on the leeward side.
I seriously doubt that the boat would hold together if rolled. Torn fibreglass everywhere.
Shades of Nexba?
The Sun Fasts are doing Hobarts, Fastnets and Transatlantics so must be pretty tough.
I am disappointed with tests like the Matthew Sheahan one in the vid; like so many in the industry he seems to be obsessed with the pro scene, hence the many references to IMOCAs which are obviously an influence in the Sun Fast design - but so must conventional IRC/ORC boats. Arguably, as the agent implies, the reason shorthanding is taking off is that they have moved AWAY from the pro-style designs.
I do tend to think that the full bow is basically the result of packing a litre into a 750ml bottle, and it's actually better to just make the boat longer for the same beam, displacement, rig, engine, gear etc by lengthening and sharpening the bow. The Sun Fast is actually proportionately heavier than the NS38 Inukshuk (which I didn't realise. although I knew they are much heavier than some older boats) and has more beam.
The funny thing is that it was only about two years ago that the opposite - wave piercing bows - was all the rage and the sailing press went ga-ga about them without actually trying to analyse them properly, just as they seem to be going ape about scows this season.
Looking at ORC certs, the NS38 Inukshuk has a downwind VMG of 8.12 knots in 20 knots of breeze compared to Transcendence (a successful local 3300) at 8.20, which seems about right looking at how well each of them went while square running. Upwind in 20 the 3300 is .2 knots quicker in 20 knots of breeze according to ORC. Where the Sunfast does really against the NS38 is in hard reaches, when it's supposedly a knot quicker. Upwind in the light, the two boats have the same ORC speed 'till 12 knots.
As noted earlier, I find it encouraging to see the two old dacron-sailed boats in the SH division hanging in their with exotic-ragged new boats. And Pacman, the Young 11, is showing just what an amazing design it is.
From the designer of the modifications
Pacman started out as a Young 11data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
We redesigned the rig (increased length / carbon), sail plan (squaretop), added prod, new keel / bulb / rudder, added water ballast, and increased length by 300 mm (12") to smooth out the wave train. She was only re-launched a week ago. S2H is her first real sea trial really.
They are sailing beautfully.
Dibley Marine - Yacht Designers
Thanks for that. I think she sold a while ago for about $60k in very good nick. If she was doing as well as she is for that sort of money I'd be very annoyed I didn't grab her at the time! There's a lot of money in the work she has received.
Isn't her current owner the guy who had her and did very well with her when she was much newer?
Different owner now.
Did a few east coast passage races with the old owner
we did well.
Currawong still slogging away. Huntress has retired and heading south again after heading ENE. . Anyone know what happened there?
Select to expand quoteBananabender said..
Huntress lost rudder. Tracking shows heading north.
She has been abandoned, a police boat picked up the crew and dropped them at Flinders Is, they are going to send out a salvage crew.
I'm hoping the media give the ladies on Currawong the coverage they deserve. Their determination and quality of seamanship in the last few weeks needs rewarding.
They averaged about 5.3 kts overnight but have been a tad faster since day break. If they can manage 5 kts today that would put them over the line not long after midnight. Wonderful timing. Their trip across seems to have been easier for the short stop at Eden.
9 boats retired, 4 with rudder damage. It would be useful to know what kind of damage and what caused it.
On a related note, any suggestions on whether to carry an emergency rudder when cruising and if so, what type?
K.
Currawong supposedly doing 9 knots at the moment with 60 miles to go. They may make it by New years Eve yet :-)
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
I'm hoping the media give the ladies on Currawong the coverage they deserve. Their determination and quality of seamanship in the last few weeks needs rewarding.
They have had a bit of coverage already
www.nytimes.com/2022/12/23/sports/sailing/sydney-hobart-race-female-crew.html
but I do agree they deserve more. They are making history!
I happen to have sailed with both and can say their story is like an onion with layers and layers of beautiful details.
e.g. Kathy Veel frequently volunteers time to the Making Waves Foundation
makingwavesfoundation.com.au/news/41038/challenging-the-status-quo-with-kathy-veel/?type_fr=
Bridget is also a volunteer with SES (and with MWF as well)
m.facebook.com/story.php/?story_fbid=120045287410890&id=107751075306978
Select to expand quoteKinora said..
They averaged about 5.3 kts overnight but have been a tad faster since day break. If they can manage 5 kts today that would put them over the line not long after midnight. Wonderful timing. Their trip across seems to have been easier for the short stop at Eden.
9 boats retired, 4 with rudder damage. It would be useful to know what kind of damage and what caused it.
On a related note, any suggestions on whether to carry an emergency rudder when cruising and if so, what type?
K.
I thought there was a requirement under offshore racing rules to have a board fitted with u bolts ready to be attached to a spinnaker pole and set up like a sweep oar found on surf boats.
Brains trust?? Anyone else remember this? I know we had this on the boat I raced south.
Select to expand quotetroubadour said..Kinora said..
They averaged about 5.3 kts overnight but have been a tad faster since day break. If they can manage 5 kts today that would put them over the line not long after midnight. Wonderful timing. Their trip across seems to have been easier for the short stop at Eden.
9 boats retired, 4 with rudder damage. It would be useful to know what kind of damage and what caused it.
On a related note, any suggestions on whether to carry an emergency rudder when cruising and if so, what type?
K.
I thought there was a requirement under offshore racing rules to have a board fitted with u bolts ready to be attached to a spinnaker pole and set up like a sweep oar found on surf boats.
Brains trust?? Anyone else remember this? I know we had this on the boat I raced south.
Yep, you're right Troubadour, the specifics of how/what your emergency rudder looks like are left up to the boat (and auditor of course).
Lifted from the Cat1 mono equipment audit form.
Select to expand quotetroubadour said..Kinora said..
They averaged about 5.3 kts overnight but have been a tad faster since day break. If they can manage 5 kts today that would put them over the line not long after midnight. Wonderful timing. Their trip across seems to have been easier for the short stop at Eden.
9 boats retired, 4 with rudder damage. It would be useful to know what kind of damage and what caused it.
On a related note, any suggestions on whether to carry an emergency rudder when cruising and if so, what type?
K.
I thought there was a requirement under offshore racing rules to have a board fitted with u bolts ready to be attached to a spinnaker pole and set up like a sweep oar found on surf boats.
Brains trust?? Anyone else remember this? I know we had this on the boat I raced south.
Not only offshore.
From the Racing Regulations(both apply to Cat 1,2,3, 4 and Night):
4.14 EMERGENCY STEERING
4.14.1 An emergency tiller capable of being fitted quickly to the rudder stock where the normal method of steering is other than by a strong tiller fitted directly to the rudder stock shall be provided.
4.14.2 Crews must be aware of alternative methods of steering the boat in any sea condition in the event of rudder loss. At least one method must have been proven to work on board the boat. An inspector may require that this method be demonstrated.
Select to expand quotetroubadour said..
I thought there was a requirement under offshore racing rules to have a board fitted with u bolts ready to be attached to a spinnaker pole and set up like a sweep oar found on surf boats.
Brains trust?? Anyone else remember this? I know we had this on the boat I raced south.
Do you think the spinnaker pole lashed to the pulpit upright would work on our 38s?
Might take a gorilla to handle it especially if it's not pretty calm (which is unlikely to be). It's a pretty hefty pole. Maybe we should start a new thread.
Many thanks for the replies, troubadour, shaggybaxter, trixpan and julesmoto. I have started a new thread to stop hijacking this one.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..troubadour said..
I thought there was a requirement under offshore racing rules to have a board fitted with u bolts ready to be attached to a spinnaker pole and set up like a sweep oar found on surf boats.
Brains trust?? Anyone else remember this? I know we had this on the boat I raced south.
Do you think the spinnaker pole lashed to the pulpit upright would work on our 38s?
Might take a gorilla to handle it especially if it's not pretty calm (which is unlikely to be). It's a pretty hefty pole. Maybe we should start a new thread.
as long as you get the fulcrum and balance right it will get you out of most situations
Select to expand quoteSoloCMV said..
Is anybody broadcasting Currawong across the finish line?
Adventures of a sailor girl said she was over and out so maybe not.
The official tracker is still showing her progress but I would have thought that if you call in to a port and use your motor that would be disqualification. What are the rules on this?
With only 5 miles to go and tide now incoming it looks like they will get there this year unless the wind dies to nothing :).
Here they finishing on my old boat
www.instagram.com/reel/Cm1ZmHcISow/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Quite amazing really they are a fantastic pair of sailors.A
Select to expand quoteAndrew68 said..
Here they finishing on my old boat
www.instagram.com/reel/Cm1ZmHcISow/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Quite amazing really they are a fantastic pair of sailors.A
Thanks for that. I did not realize it was your old boat! I hope they used the Fleming during the race. The other videos of them sailing in the last race a couple of weeks back always had the oar out of the water and they were hand steering.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..Andrew68 said..
Here they finishing on my old boat
www.instagram.com/reel/Cm1ZmHcISow/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Quite amazing really they are a fantastic pair of sailors.A
Thanks for that. I did not realize it was your old boat! I hope they used the Fleming during the race. The other videos of them sailing in the last race a couple of weeks back always had the oar out of the water and they were hand steering.
Kath bought Currawong during Covid times. She looked at a lot of Currawongs before buying mine. They did a lot of quality of life modifications, but the boat is basically that same as I sold it including the 15 year old main sail. The Fleming is classified as an autopilot and included in the rating calcs. I don't think they had time to properly familiarize themselves with Fleming enough for race mode. But I found it amazing in strong headwinds, but was never stable enough for spinnaker work. As noted above Kath and Bridget and very experience sailors in their own rights and its very impressive to see what they can get out of that boat.
Select to expand quoteAndrew68 said..
Here they finishing on my old boat
www.instagram.com/reel/Cm1ZmHcISow/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Quite amazing really they are a fantastic pair of sailors.A
Thanks for sending it. Was fun to watch that just after midnight at the club.
The organisers have just uploaded some more material. Here's their arrival interview
www.livesaildie.com/currawong-finishes-in-fine-style/
And a the abbreviated footage of the same
www.instagram.com/reel/Cm2NKHCq92P/?igshid=Yzg5MTU1MDY=
Select to expand quoteFor those who don't use Facebook. I noticed in all the photos the Fleming oar was out of the water!
2Birds2Hobart
?
Sorry about the long wait for a post, there have been a few technical challenges.
But, WE MADE IT!
We had great coverage by the race commentators, Peter Shipway and Gordon Bray, and by the CYCA media team, who did a great job of putting out our message - if we had one - follow your dreams throughout your whole life, and never say never!
Here are a few snaps from the race, not that we took many photos.
We had some great sailing: 21 hours straight flying along with the spinnaker up, down the NSW coast sailing at 9+ knots, (max 10), running with No 4 jib and 3 reefs before a fresh northerly and majestic waves as we entered Bass Strait, a SW front then some light winds before two days of beam reaching in 20-28 knots from Flinders Island to Freycinnet. Then another kite run down to Tasman Island and a blast in 30-35 knots across Storm Bay. Sailed on one tack from the Iron Pot to the finish, scraping across the line as the breeze vanished, just in time for the New Years fireworks and an unbelievable welcome.
Why did we pause in Eden?
I (Kathy) was extremely tired and depleted after the first two days and the forecast was for following winds potentially gusting up to 50 knots and it would be dark when we got into Bass Strait. Those conditions need great care especially on steering the boat or you risk getting knocked down. For two handers the consequences of mistakes and injury can be high, and I knew that after a couple of hours of complete rest I'd be ready for whatever Bass Strait throw at us.
It was a tough decision. We had worked so hard, so many people were supporting us and it meant bailing out of the competition with Gunrunner and Maluka, but in the end 2 handed sailing isn't 1.4 handed sailing!
We never contemplated retiring, and once underway we sailed hard, with the goal of finishing in 2022.
Huntress. Reading the articles which lack detail they lost their rudder. Got sea sick. Abandoned the boat. Do we know if they tried anything else? Like did they try steering with a drogue until they could get a safe tow or something like that. I ask because my new (from the mid 90's) boat has a blade type rudder with no skeg. Although the rudder shaft is about three inches in diameter and far thicker than most modern boats.
www.themercury.com.au/news/aboriginal-land-council-claim-ownership-of-washed-up-sydney-to-hobart-yacht/news-story/e565557481da6b504359716b87bcd04d?amp&nk=ed19eb6e27f178d58bafcbab50e1b2ab-1673240389
Ok
If this the case who pays to remove from the beach?
Who does the (now previous) owner claim insurance from?
What will the boat be worth to the new owners?
Guessing new owners didnt have insurace nor will they be able to get insurance, but that said its ready for out of water survey.
Also, why was a salvage tow not attempted before she washed up?
