Thanks Unclebob.. Since that post and now I've told the owner I'm holding off on the purchase ;) that's a good point you made
A neighbour is selling his hood 23. He's moving/moved to the country. It's neat, recent anti foul and has a reliable 4 stroke 5 hp Yamaha outboard. It has been used as a twighlight racer these last few summers . I think it's a bargain at $1500. If you're interested please PM me and I'll give you a contact number. You'll be speaking to one of the crew ( another neighbour) selling it for him. Photo taken 2 days ago
Hello guys
With the very greatest respect to all can I suggest we all be a tad sanguine with regards to the OP and this yacht? I sent a PM message to Snowgoose since I well knew the yacht and the owner before the current seller.
Ok so insurance issues to sort and having a shed to work on components is obviously a good idea. Excellent offers to inspect from MB.
Would not have expected someone posting on here with obvious genuine intent to purchase to be advised to go and sail on someone else's yacht.
New cushions are expensive but on this age and price range of yacht they surely would not be a consideration to influence the sale. So go buy some stuff from Clark Rubber to sit on for 2/3 of 4/5 of not very much.
The fact that the hull has been epoxy dynel sheathed and it being a show stopper is completely not able to be interpreted. So are we saying that all ply boats which have been epoxy dynel sheathed are worth jack nothing? Give me a break.
Select to expand quoter13 said..
Hello guys
With the very greatest respect to all can I suggest we all be a tad sanguine with regards to the OP and this yacht? I sent a PM message to Snowgoose since I well knew the yacht and the owner before the current seller.
Ok so insurance issues to sort and having a shed to work on components is obviously a good idea. Excellent offers to inspect from MB.
Would not have expected someone posting on here with obvious genuine intent to purchase to be advised to go and sail on someone else's yacht.
New cushions are expensive but on this age and price range of yacht they surely would not be a consideration to influence the sale. So go buy some stuff from Clark Rubber to sit on for 2/3 of 4/5 of not very much.
The fact that the hull has been epoxy dynel sheathed and it being a show stopper is completely not able to be interpreted. So are we saying that all ply boats which have been epoxy dynel sheathed are worth jack nothing? Give me a break.
If the hull was sheathed originally then no problem, if sheathed later in life I would have to ask WHY. All I see here is people offering a perspective to the original poster that may not have been there previously.
If you feel that we have overreached with advice then I am sure that the prospective purchaser would greatly appreciate your hands on wisdom and advice. 
Cushions are easy. Just use the base cushions from 3 seat settees. Rubbish dump recycle shops, side of the road. They are perfect for the saloon bunks. Forward compartment is a bit more of a problem but with a Thunderbird that area is probably best left bare for sail storage.
That's what I'm using on the SS34 for the saloon and quarter berth. I used the same on my old quarter tonner. It's nice if the covers match but not compulsory.
My old quarter tonner was a Ben Lexcen M&W26. Dynel sheathed cedar ply hull with a fibreglass deck and cabin. Lead keel. Superb boat to sail, fast as any 30 footer but had no headroom and that's why I sold her. Nothing wrong with Thunderbirds, probably a bit more maintenance with the cast iron keel but lots of boats in that era had cast iron keels.
Because of the lockdown I am not able to get out to have a look at the boat but I've had a look at the photos. I'm not an expert on timber boats but there do seem to be some obvious issues.
The photos show a boat with water and rust in the bilge, timber planking showing signs of leaking which is possibly where the water is coming from, bulkheads that have been poorly patched, deckhead with poor patching.
It looks to me like it needs to come out of the water and receive some maybe extensive hull repairs. As others have noted the glass sheath could well have been to avoid repairing the timber hull.
The sails look to be good but I don't know about the rigging, chain plates etc which might be similar condition to the hull.
A fair bit of work and money in my view. Snowgoose is doing the right thing by holding off for the time being until it can be properly looked at.
I spent a good part of my childhood racing and cruising on a thunderbird. Back in the 60s there was a strong class association with great regattas and social get togethers.
I was in Seattle recently and found a still active fleet and also visited Gig Harbour where I looked over the no 2 built. They were 26 feet so they could be built in the standard American garage. Ply because that was simple and affordable for the home builder. In fact the design was the winner of a competition put up by a plywood company.
I doubt many would have been glassed from launch. Maybe the seams in some of the early 70s built. Since the majority where home built the quality will depend on the builder and the ply. A fully glassed ply boat back then wouldn't have been competitive because of weight. I may be wrong.
There are so many cheapies on the market now of all designs that I'd prefer frozen snot over ply just to avoid heartache unless you have funds and it's an act of love to enjoy a restoration. After all you don't buy an old 66 beetle because they are better than 10 year old Corolla.
thunderbirdsailing.org/history/
cheers
Thank you to all who have offered their knowledge and advice here :) I am very appreciative of the fact that you've all taken the time to write something for my benefit. As MB said, potentially some work there down below. The (keel??) bolts have no rust on them however there is brown (silt/rust?) in the bilge water. Indeed it may very well be freshwater however I can't ascertain where it is entering, the boat is covered and then below that cover is a heavy-duty plastic tarp that covers almost the entire deck. That bilge, even being a newcomer to sailing, is giving me the heebie-jeebies. It;s not the fact that it's there, its the fact of how it got there.
Probably the worst time to look for a boat, *&*^%! Covid but what can one do.
Well, If I do buy it, as least there is a Thunderbird expert here (Ringle)..and to be quite honest my dream would be a wooden boat of some sort..I would have no greater pleasure than sanding back and expoxy/varninshing all the wooden trim (yep, I like to self inflict pain LOL) something about the look does it for me. Wooden boats are in my blood, my great grandfather hand built Huon pine boats in Tasmania. In fact the Maritime Museum has a picture of him on display!
But let's get back to reality and the present. At the moment I am holding off on the purchase, as much as I would like to buy the Tbird. Maybe the owner will drop the price even more? Maybe someone with time AND space will grab it..Or do I take a risk?
I have attempted to contact the seller of the Hood 23 posted above, it's not my first choice by a long shot but for $1500 I surely should be happy. It would need to be sailed down to Sydney Harbour is all, should I buy it. The intelligent, responsible, sane part of me is whispering: "the Hood, take the Hood 23" whereas my heart is saying "that Tbird would come up a treat".........
I've sent some of you the interior pics via PM, the general consensus is: would need to come out of the water for a closer inspection :)
Well, that's a wide range of my thoughts for now.
@ Ramona, re cushions, thanks! You gave me a few more ideas I didn't think of :)
I've got a wooden boat here in Tas...30 ft bay cruiser would be close to the mark but it did live in the North West so it has done some coastal cruising in the past l think.
Bought it as a project to do up and play with, after going to a lot of wooden boat festivals etc
They require a LOT of work that sometimes you can't always do when you want, due to life and it's issues
We' ve got other fibreglass boats that require little work in comparison, get on and go anytime....mostly.
The wood boat is just a drain on our available time now.
Gonna pass it on very soon.
Will still go to WBF's but not looking to get another wood boat ever again.
Achernar, my plan would be to upgrade to 9HP but would the OB bracket take a 10 or even 15HP? Would that be too much weight on one side and the rear of the boat..? The owner who raced the yacht with PRSC had the OB bracket professionally fitted, I guess I should ask him. Ideally I would like as much HP as is necessary then some just incase of emergencies. That old Seagull I am not sure of the HP but will prob sell. It still has the orignal instruction manual so if I can easily find the model/hp from that. But as mentioned it's unlikely I will buy the boat until someone more experienced than myself takes a look around it or I can get it slipped/surveyed but with Covid that doesn't look like it would happen soon. If I were more experience myself AND I had an outboard I would take it for a sail, the current owner has said that's OK, unfortunately he is stuck in Mudgee with work at the moment.
Will keep you all posted about the Hood 23 as that will be my focus for now (fingers crossed!!)
@ Tired, interesting viewpoint which I know from half of me saying the exact same things you wrote lol..all in all I think with ample time and money a wooden boat is a joy to own :) and it would be foolish of me to think the one I saw advertised was a diamond hidden under a blue cover
Select to expand quoteUncleBob said..r13 said..
Hello guys
With the very greatest respect to all can I suggest we all be a tad sanguine with regards to the OP and this yacht? I sent a PM message to Snowgoose since I well knew the yacht and the owner before the current seller.
Ok so insurance issues to sort and having a shed to work on components is obviously a good idea. Excellent offers to inspect from MB.
Would not have expected someone posting on here with obvious genuine intent to purchase to be advised to go and sail on someone else's yacht.
New cushions are expensive but on this age and price range of yacht they surely would not be a consideration to influence the sale. So go buy some stuff from Clark Rubber to sit on for 2/3 of 4/5 of not very much.
The fact that the hull has been epoxy dynel sheathed and it being a show stopper is completely not able to be interpreted. So are we saying that all ply boats which have been epoxy dynel sheathed are worth jack nothing? Give me a break.
If the hull was sheathed originally then no problem, if sheathed later in life I would have to ask WHY. All I see here is people offering a perspective to the original poster that may not have been there previously.
If you feel that we have overreached with advice then I am sure that the prospective purchaser would greatly appreciate your hands on wisdom and advice.
Ok. Yes have exchanged numerous PMs with Snowgoose, all good.
Hi all.. An update. Am on the boat at the moment. I tested the water in the bilge (fresh). I then poured water (from the ocean) over the pop top and the mast, then went below into the cabin and.... Saturated! Water appears to be leaking through:
The pop top hinge
The 'bog' (amateur DIY) repair on the cabin top internal (cabin roof)
The mast boot (its keel stepped remember, forgive me if I've use the wrong term there)
The mast in general.
The mast is aluminium but has a central track or hole if it were, so I poured water down the track ABOVE the boat cover and yes.. Water inside
Good input obviously.
Pop top hinge leak is readily rectified as long as rot has not spread into the pop top - even if it has a pop top is reasonably easily locally repaired or renewed entirely - would not expect the latter to be the case but you would know after checking the ply around the area.
Cabin top internal bog should be chiseled out and re-done properly - what area is this over? May need a ply piece spliced in, with doubler ply piece underneath. Not a 5min job but not 5 days either.
Keel stepped masts are better structurally than deck stepped (albeit both types have similar safety factors if designed right as regards the mast section especially at the first panel which for deck stepped masts need a doubler mast section inside) but they come with the deck collar and mainsail bolt rope groove leak potential as stated. So fit a good mast collar properly sealed, seal up the mast bolt rope groove above the collar and it will all be sealed except for smaller amounts of water coming into the mast via halyard exits etc - mop them up regularly. Collar from canvas or rubber sheet secured with utilux clamps and sealants. Normally the deck has a collar which the lower part of the flexible mast collar goes over.
Fresh water in a wooden yacht is a killer. Salt is better though when it evaporates it condenses on the upper surfaces of the interior till it drops down and starts the whole process over. The real problem area is under the cockpit floor and seats plus the backrests in the cockpit. My yacht has a plywood deck, cabin, and cockpit. Some rain will always come down the mast in a keel-stepped yacht. I have a dedicated battery,solar panel, controller, Waterwitch switch, and a 12v pump that is always operational separate from the main batteries and solar set up. This is just to keep the timber interior in good nick. There also has to be a full flow of air through the vessel with intakes as close to the bow as you can and exhaust vents right at the stern.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
Fresh water in a wooden yacht is a killer. Salt is better though when it evaporates it condenses on the upper surfaces of the interior till it drops down and starts the whole process over. The real problem area is under the cockpit floor and seats plus the backrests in the cockpit. My yacht has a plywood deck, cabin, and cockpit. Some rain will always come down the mast in a keel-stepped yacht. I have a dedicated battery,solar panel, controller, Waterwitch switch, and a 12v pump that is always operational separate from the main batteries and solar set up. This is just to keep the timber interior in good nick. There also has to be a full flow of air through the vessel with intakes as close to the bow as you can and exhaust vents right at the stern.
Thanks Ramona, appreciate the info and a few good ideas there, especially with regard to the bilge pump. The current pump is too big @ 800GPH so it's not being tripped to pump at the current water level, which always leaves some fresh water in the bilge :(
500 to 800 gph is ample for a bilge pump. The waterwitch switch is the best insurance money can buy. There will always be some water in the bilge of a wooden boat and a lot of fibreglass yachts from rain.
www.whitworths.com.au/swch-waterwitch-mini
The best 100 bucks you will ever spend.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
500 to 800 gph is ample for a bilge pump. The waterwitch switch is the best insurance money can buy. There will always be some water in the bilge of a wooden boat and a lot of fibreglass yachts from rain.
www.whitworths.com.au/swch-waterwitch-mini
The best 100 bucks you will ever spend.
Done! What a great little product. I've bookmarked that page for purchase once I decide if the yacht is for me cheers!
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
Fresh water in a wooden yacht is a killer. Salt is better though when it evaporates it condenses on the upper surfaces of the interior till it drops down and starts the whole process over. The real problem area is under the cockpit floor and seats plus the backrests in the cockpit. My yacht has a plywood deck, cabin, and cockpit. Some rain will always come down the mast in a keel-stepped yacht. I have a dedicated battery,solar panel, controller, Waterwitch switch, and a 12v pump that is always operational separate from the main batteries and solar set up. This is just to keep the timber interior in good nick. There also has to be a full flow of air through the vessel with intakes as close to the bow as you can and exhaust vents right at the stern.
Like he said- Fresh water in a wooden yacht is a killer. Get out a screwdriver and start prodding the lower timber. You will know in about 5 minutes if this boat is viable or not.
Select to expand quoteSnowgoose said..
Achernar, my plan would be to upgrade to 9HP but would the OB bracket take a 10 or even 15HP? Would that be too much weight on one side and the rear of the boat..? The owner who raced the yacht with PRSC had the OB bracket professionally fitted, I guess I should ask him. Ideally I would like as much HP as is necessary then some just incase of emergencies. That old Seagull I am not sure of the HP but will prob sell. It still has the orignal instruction manual so if I can easily find the model/hp from that. But as mentioned it's unlikely I will buy the boat until someone more experienced than myself takes a look around it or I can get it slipped/surveyed but with Covid that doesn't look like it would happen soon. If I were more experience myself AND I had an outboard I would take it for a sail, the current owner has said that's OK, unfortunately he is stuck in Mudgee with work at the moment.
Will keep you all posted about the Hood 23 as that will be my focus for now (fingers crossed!!)
So what was wrong with the Hood 23?
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
500 to 800 gph is ample for a bilge pump. The waterwitch switch is the best insurance money can buy. There will always be some water in the bilge of a wooden boat and a lot of fibreglass yachts from rain.
www.whitworths.com.au/swch-waterwitch-mini
The best 100 bucks you will ever spend.
Done! What a great little product. I've bookmarked that page for purchase once I decide if the yacht is for me cheers!Select to expand quoteRingle said..
A neighbour is selling his hood 23. He's moving/moved to the country. It's neat, recent anti foul and has a reliable 4 stroke 5 hp Yamaha outboard. It has been used as a twighlight racer these last few summers . I think it's a bargain at $1500. If you're interested please PM me and I'll give you a contact number. You'll be speaking to one of the crew ( another neighbour) selling it for him. Photo taken 2 days ago
Hi Ringle,
Spoke to Graham about this yesterday, he can confim all is OK however 2 points to note: outboard needs a service and the deck is spongy in a few places. They have sailed for quite a while without repairing the spongy areas and so far so good Graham tells me..I might go and take a look at the boat this week however am still leaning towards the Tbird 26 now that I know a) where the water is coming from and b) what type of water it is: fresh and from the deck/mast area.
The Hood will be like a Corolla where use verses maintenance is concerned. The Thunderbird is the more eccentric purchase. it could break your heart or be an interesting project.
A 10 hp outboard would be a little much but that doesn't matter as long as it fits. A 6 hp would be fine otherwise.
decisions, decisions :( but you are right indeed...also, i think I will go with either a 6hp or preferably 8hp max
Select to expand quoteYara said..Ramona said..
Fresh water in a wooden yacht is a killer. Salt is better though when it evaporates it condenses on the upper surfaces of the interior till it drops down and starts the whole process over. The real problem area is under the cockpit floor and seats plus the backrests in the cockpit. My yacht has a plywood deck, cabin, and cockpit. Some rain will always come down the mast in a keel-stepped yacht. I have a dedicated battery,solar panel, controller, Waterwitch switch, and a 12v pump that is always operational separate from the main batteries and solar set up. This is just to keep the timber interior in good nick. There also has to be a full flow of air through the vessel with intakes as close to the bow as you can and exhaust vents right at the stern.
Like he said- Fresh water in a wooden yacht is a killer. Get out a screwdriver and start prodding the lower timber. You will know in about 5 minutes if this boat is viable or not.
Hi Yara, in the bilge ALL the timber was rock solid. Even with me using a pair of small 'pin-nosed' pliers I could barely penetrate the wood. Except for 1 or 2 mm on the top edges of some pieces if that makes sense
There are photos uploaded to my profile gallery of various inspections I did yesterday if anyone wants to have a look and advise..
Secondly, my apologies to all.. I truly appreciate the time you have all spent on taking my calls and answering my questions, looking at photos and replying to my posts.. To be quite honest I never expected as much help, input or advice and I'm taken aback. Everyone who has replied or posted or done anything @ all, let me assure you it's been read, digested, googling and on boarded by me :) It's been exhausting for me though, and I hope to make a decision soon.. There are the wooden boat lovers like me and the sane, sensible GRP people too so I'll definitely upset one camp haha! But rest assured 9nce my decision is made I will no doubt be a regular on here :??? if only to get some Seabreezers out for a sail on my new purchase!
Select to expand quoteSnowgoose said..Ramona said..
500 to 800 gph is ample for a bilge pump. The waterwitch switch is the best insurance money can buy. There will always be some water in the bilge of a wooden boat and a lot of fibreglass yachts from rain.
www.whitworths.com.au/swch-waterwitch-mini
The best 100 bucks you will ever spend.
Done! What a great little product. I've bookmarked that page for purchase once I decide if the yacht is for me cheers!Ringle said..
A neighbour is selling his hood 23. He's moving/moved to the country. It's neat, recent anti foul and has a reliable 4 stroke 5 hp Yamaha outboard. It has been used as a twighlight racer these last few summers . I think it's a bargain at $1500. If you're interested please PM me and I'll give you a contact number. You'll be speaking to one of the crew ( another neighbour) selling it for him. Photo taken 2 days ago
Hi Ringle,
Spoke to Graham about this yesterday, he can confim all is OK however 2 points to note: outboard needs a service and the deck is spongy in a few places. They have sailed for quite a while without repairing the spongy areas and so far so good Graham tells me..I might go and take a look at the boat this week however am still leaning towards the Tbird 26 now that I know a) where the water is coming from and b) what type of water it is: fresh and from the deck/mast area.
You won't find a Hood 23 without spongy decks. A lot better proposition than the timber T Bird
Select to expand quoteSnowgoose said..Ramona said..
500 to 800 gph is ample for a bilge pump. The waterwitch switch is the best insurance money can buy. There will always be some water in the bilge of a wooden boat and a lot of fibreglass yachts from rain.
www.whitworths.com.au/swch-waterwitch-mini
The best 100 bucks you will ever spend.
Done! What a great little product. I've bookmarked that page for purchase once I decide if the yacht is for me cheers!Ringle said..
A neighbour is selling his hood 23. He's moving/moved to the country. It's neat, recent anti foul and has a reliable 4 stroke 5 hp Yamaha outboard. It has been used as a twighlight racer these last few summers . I think it's a bargain at $1500. If you're interested please PM me and I'll give you a contact number. You'll be speaking to one of the crew ( another neighbour) selling it for him. Photo taken 2 days ago
Hi Ringle,
Spoke to Graham about this yesterday, he can confim all is OK however 2 points to note: outboard needs a service and the deck is spongy in a few places. They have sailed for quite a while without repairing the spongy areas and so far so good Graham tells me..I might go and take a look at the boat this week however am still leaning towards the Tbird 26 now that I know a) where the water is coming from and b) what type of water it is: fresh and from the deck/mast area.
You won't find a Hood 23 without spongy decks. A lot better proposition than the timber T Bird
Select to expand quotetroubadour said..Snowgoose said..Ramona said..
500 to 800 gph is ample for a bilge pump. The waterwitch switch is the best insurance money can buy. There will always be some water in the bilge of a wooden boat and a lot of fibreglass yachts from rain.
www.whitworths.com.au/swch-waterwitch-mini
The best 100 bucks you will ever spend.
Done! What a great little product. I've bookmarked that page for purchase once I decide if the yacht is for me cheers!Ringle said..
A neighbour is selling his hood 23. He's moving/moved to the country. It's neat, recent anti foul and has a reliable 4 stroke 5 hp Yamaha outboard. It has been used as a twighlight racer these last few summers . I think it's a bargain at $1500. If you're interested please PM me and I'll give you a contact number. You'll be speaking to one of the crew ( another neighbour) selling it for him. Photo taken 2 days ago
Hi Ringle,
Spoke to Graham about this yesterday, he can confim all is OK however 2 points to note: outboard needs a service and the deck is spongy in a few places. They have sailed for quite a while without repairing the spongy areas and so far so good Graham tells me..I might go and take a look at the boat this week however am still leaning towards the Tbird 26 now that I know a) where the water is coming from and b) what type of water it is: fresh and from the deck/mast area.
You won't find a Hood 23 without spongy decks. A lot better proposition than the timber T Bird
Thanks troubadour, I've just sent the Tbird owner a 'last resort' price & if it can't be met then tomorrow morning I'm buying the Hood.. I can't go wrong somewhat @ $1500
