Select to expand quoteRamona said..
That fuel tank looks like it's aluminium.
I thought so too but blamed my eyes!!
Could be aluminium but more likely stainless based on the reflection off the underside panel - and assume Achernar would not state stainless if it wasn't. Suggest need a bit wider zoomed out shot to throw more light on the hose connections each side of the separator.
Select to expand quotelydia said..woko said..
Now that's an interesting observation. I can't wait for the theory behind it
It is a good theory, but some would say law of diesels.
Look carefully at the filter.
If I understand correctly with that filter the fuel goes first through the filter then the water separator, I agree , wrong way round for marine use.
Better still, get a Racor 500 or, if finances are a problem, a chinese knockoff and piss it off.
Now I'm showing my ignorance, I was under the impression that the fuel oil being lighter than water floated on top and as such the water sunk to the lower part of the unit pre filter, then the fuel oil carried on its merry way through the filter . The numbering & arrows where indeed in my belief for multi filter gangs. Next service i will observe the journal's journey so to speak
Ah looking at the pic again I see that the number 3 port possibly leads to outer side of the filter aka water trap. But obviously either of the out by ports could be used depending on orientation no ?
Select to expand quoteUncleBob said..lydia said..woko said..
Now that's an interesting observation. I can't wait for the theory behind it
It is a good theory, but some would say law of diesels.
Look carefully at the filter.
If I understand correctly with that filter the fuel goes first through the filter then the water separator, I agree , wrong way round for marine use.
Better still, get a Racor 500 or, if finances are a problem, a chinese knockoff and piss it off.
The winner!
Normally sediment is caught at the top of the filter but water has to pass through the filter cartridge to get to the bowl.
If you reverse the flow and sediment and the water remain under or at the bottom of the cartridge.
We are talking CAV filters here as on other the direction of flow will be crucial.
Equally others have said drawing the fuel up loads the fuel pump more.
Who knows?
But just saying!
I have had boats with both methods.
Select to expand quotelydia said..UncleBob said..lydia said..woko said..
Now that's an interesting observation. I can't wait for the theory behind it
It is a good theory, but some would say law of diesels.
Look carefully at the filter.
If I understand correctly with that filter the fuel goes first through the filter then the water separator, I agree , wrong way round for marine use.
Better still, get a Racor 500 or, if finances are a problem, a chinese knockoff and piss it off.
The winner!
Normally sediment is caught at the top of the filter but water has to pass through the filter cartridge to get to the bowl.
If you reverse the flow and sediment and the water remain under or at the bottom of the cartridge.
We are talking CAV filters here as on other the direction of flow will be crucial.
Equally others have said drawing the fuel up loads the fuel pump more.
Who knows?
But just saying!
I have had boats with both methods.
Didn't know my tank and water separator would cause so much interest.
Both were installed by previous owners and came with the boat. So, my focus has been to put it back the way it was and see if it would stop the slow leak. Process of elimination.
I'll obviously need to check the instructions for which way round to connect the hoses. Note that it is a Ryco water-separator with a glass bowl at the bottom and a water bleed tap at the base. There is a separate Ryco fuel filter mounted on the engine.
Thanks for the comments about the bend and contact with the side. There is not a lot of room there, and the barb from the tap takes up half of it. It might need a right-angle.
Just to add to the awkwardosity of the whole assembly, it lives in the port cockpit locker but the cover is too small for me to get inside, so everything has to be done at arm's reach from the cockpit floor. Maybe I should look on Airtasker for a midget spanner-monkey who can actually get in there and see what's what.
Now you mention it, I don't know if the tank is stainless or aluminium. It does the job, though.
Hi Archernar
A 90 degree fitting that has the barb the right size for the hose will eliminate the bend/ rubbing and the joint (and potential weak spot) in the hose.
Note that it is a Ryco water-separator with a glass bowl at the bottom and a water bleed tap at the base.
Also you mention twice that the fuel line goes to a Ryco filter but in your photos I can clearly see a CAV filter.
Is there a Ryco filter after the CAV?
Gary
The fitting on the tap looks to be a flared compression fitting, I bet one of us has one in a box of fittings. But first you need to get that midget spanner monkey in there
Select to expand quotetroubadour said..
Standard issue Cavalier 28/30 fuel tank is aluminium.
It certainly looks like a tig welded aluminium weld. If it was a SS weld I'd be looking for a new fabricator.
Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
Note that it is a Ryco water-separator with a glass bowl at the bottom and a water bleed tap at the base.
Also you mention twice that the fuel line goes to a Ryco filter but in your photos I can clearly see a CAV filter.
Is there a Ryco filter after the CAV?
Gary
Hi Gary, I didn't see the Cav stamp on the upper alloy bit until you mentioned it. It has a Ryco filter and glass bowl screwed under it. I had assumed the whole thing was Ryco. When I took it apart and re-assembled it, it was difficult to get it to feel like it was properly seated. (Having to do this virtually upside down from above the filter)
PS thanks for the right-angle bend pic - that was what I had in mind, or something similar.
Select to expand quoteHi Archernar
I guess you might be getting a little tired of us experts telling you what to do, but honestly this is all in good faith.
Your filter set up is not good enough and will continue to give you headaches and fuel / air leaks and so on.
The reason that there is a glass bowl is for you to see if or how contaminated your fuel is.
If you can't see the bowl then it is useless.
If the filter casing is fitted in a place where you can't change the filter quickly and easily it is useless as you will put off filter changes and end up with more trouble.
The long term answer to your filter troubles is.
1, A proper 90 degree fitting at the tank.
2. Correctly sized hose from the tank to the filter with no joints.
3. A better filter. A Ramona mentioned there are inexpensive Ryco copies out there
4. The filter refitted in a location where you can see the bowl and change the filter correctly every time.
5. A fuel squeeze bulb after the filter to make priming easier.
You can stick with the CAV if you are fine by that, but look at where you can fit it in the engine room where it is accessible, get the hose and fittings and move it there.
Top of the range top loading filter separator. $50 with free shipping
Gary
Gary,
Thanks for your response. I am not at all tired of the advice offered here, and I am actually finding it very helpful.
I inherited the current system from previous owners and I don't intend to either bag it or defend it. It seems to be something of a Frankenstein's monster, with different parts kludged and bolted together, such as a CAV top and a Ryco bottom. When I started this thread, I had no idea about the different bits and pieces, except that it had a slow leak that got the Admiral worried. I had intended to put it back the way it was, minus the leak. Thanks to the posts here, I now have a better idea of what the system is and, perhaps, what it should be.
I take your point about the accessibility and visibility of the glass bowl. The current system actually has two different things - the Ryco fuel filter screwed onto the Bukh engine (under the engine cowling) and the separate CAV/Ryco water/fuel separator mashup (in the portside locker). I also take your point about the bend and priming bulb. I had considered a bulb earlier, but thought that I should fix the problem leak before improving the system (trying to keep it simple and do one thing at a time).
I'll see how much diesel, if any, that the bilge has collected over the weekend.
I think it's the ryco r2132p that works in the cav housing, the "r" number is commonly used as a reference for other filter manufacturers, you could have a fleet Guard or sukura or any number of makers of filters cartridges installed. I'm starting to think the userbility of the kit has a good deal to do with the quality of the rubber seals, and of course the ability to access the unit to replace the seals especially the commonly overlooked one in the head of the unit, you know the one that you have to stand on your head and pick the old one out with an awl or some sharp pointy thing
It is still leaking, but the problem is not the fuel hose or filter. I'll start a new thread for that.
Anyhow, following Woko's post, I checked, and it is a Ryco R2132P with a Cav top and, presumably, Cav glass bowl.
If I pull it out and re-route the filter/separator to somewhere more accessible and upgrade the filter, what do you recommend? Maybe a Ryco R2132UA (www.rycofilters.com.au/catalogue/part/index/part/R2132UA)?
The most accessible place for it appears to be the forward facing side of the bulkhead that separates the port locker (which houses the tank) from the head compartment.
Our tank is quite a long way from the engine and no room for a day tank. So we put a small inline electric pump just before the filter. Wired up too the ignition key.
Now when I change the filters you just turn the key to prime. Lazy,but soooo much easier.
I also found a leak once by turning it on without starting the engine.
Today, I found that Muir Marine in Manly, QLD has a big range of stainless steel fuel hose fittings, barbs, bends etc.
Got a right angle and an 8mm barb to replace the 10mm crimped hose from the tank to the fuel filter/water separator.
Other posters have commented that the hoses are connected the wrong way round, but they follow the arrows from the tank to the engine.
That looks heaps better, if you plumb the cav filter to the other set of arrows or swap the hoses, the in bound fuel goes to the glass bowl 1st then through the filter to the engine, the idea being that the bowl becomes a pre filter with sediments settling in there. A good idea If you have filthy / rusty tanks or have a system that's prone to contamination by water.
I've always ran the pipes the same as Achernar. The only thing in the bowl I want to see is water.
Yep that's what the filter is for. I did have an old tractor circa 50s that collected all manner of debris in that glass bowl, and thanks to SB I now know why, it must of been plumbed, can I say arse up
don,t want to start a fight but were do people get the idea that the cav filter should be hooked up reverse flow,this is incorrect.if you look under the casting the two in arrows enter to the out side of the filter,this allows any water and debris to run down the out side of the filter as the paper is treated to risist water entry,the fuel travels through the paper and in to the center of housing were it is ported by a gallery to the out arrow.if you hook your lines up to 2 ins or 2 out the filter will not function correctly
Select to expand quotewoko said..
Yep that's what the filter is for. I did have an old tractor circa 50s that collected all manner of debris in that glass bowl, and thanks to SB I now know why, it must of been plumbed, can I say arse up
woko it was not plumbed incorrectly, it was doing its job which is to collect all that crap and stop it getting to the fuel pump
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
I've always ran the pipes the same as Achernar. The only thing in the bowl I want to see is water.
filter elements are design for flow from out side in other wise as they block up and the filter material blow a part. the cage to add strength to the element is on the inside of the paper.i have fixed a lot of hydraulic systems that were plumbed upback to front and the elements brakes up and plug up all sorts of orifices
Select to expand quotewoko said..
That looks heaps better, if you plumb the cav filter to the other set of arrows or swap the hoses, the in bound fuel goes to the glass bowl 1st then through the filter to the engine, the idea being that the bowl becomes a pre filter with sediments settling in there. A good idea If you have filthy / rusty tanks or have a system that's prone to contamination by water.
that infomation is incorrect he has it plumbed correct
So then the extra ports are there to plumb the cav either left or right hand depending on orientation ?
Select to expand quotewoko said..
So then the extra ports are there to plumb the cav either left or right hand depending on orientation ?
yeah,or you can go in on one side and exit on the same side ,you can also fit twin tanks to it and twin outputs,some engines returned the bypas fuel to it ,but this cause air bleed problems,it was the best multi fit filter in its day.
if any one has these filters,buy genuine filter kits as they will have all 3 square rings in the kit,the slightly bigger ring goes in the housing it is normaly marked with a colour
