From what I've read this is 180 degrees from what FISLY were contemplating...should be interesting viewing.

I won't mention the positives of such a decision, though there are a few. Do you think this will adversely affect sailors entering the sport who wish to race but can't afford (time/money/knowledge/time/etc) a 'high-end' 5.6mini landyacht?

Creating a TRUE international class for any sport is a chance that doesn’t come up often, it’s only happened a few of times in sports. Motor racing, cycling, and yachting, It’s there for the sport of land sailing worldwide at the moment with the mini 5.6 rule.

It needs to be done with a long term view of a sport rather than from a selfish personal biased view from a particular person or country.

FISLY have done an amazing job of formulating the first true world wide class of MINI 5.6 yet some people trying to manipulate the rules for their own personal reasons….why?

One of the reasons the sport has NOT flourished worldwide is there is NO flow through from beginners to top level competition, motorsport is a wonderful example of a well structured sport.

The MINI 5.6 is there to be an introduction to the sport for newcomers, often totally inexperienced women and children and on small sailing sites. Then moving on to more advanced race classes.

If groups create a fragmented versions of a class they undermine the ENTIRE sport not just that class.
This is what has happened in past with VERY poor results.

The proposed specs for the US 5.6 Mini is just plain stupid….. where are the newcomers in the US going to come into the sport?

What they will enter is full on ‘no restriction’ class that will cost an arm and leg.
Some of the high tech materials have and will be used just to ‘win’ in the class but at what cost….. All right for some with VERY selfish and personal reasons.

Please lets just have ONE Mini 5.6 class worldwide and promote the sport for all..

Gizmo makes a good point and is what FISLY is expecting to do (I believe) - create a group for those wishing to go faster (ie: 5.6mini 'open' and 'restricted'). Seems simple enough to me to work with, at least until we try and decide what features fit the 'restricted' or 'open' classifications.

This said, the USA situation is a little different to the rest of the world. I think they have an entry class, this being the Manta. However, the USA may find it hard to attract European landsailors who enjoy the current 5.6mini (or future 5.6mini R class).

I agree with Landyacht. By teaching others the knowledge and skills as well as encouraging helps the sport progress. The fast guys want others to improve, its pointless designing and developing a fast mini if you have no competition.

Designing and building land yachts is an investment in time. Most are made from recycled materials anyway. I think the most exotic material is some carbon fibre that I put on my seat. Nothing too high tech about that. Mini yachts aren't expensive compared to a fully decked out performance blokart. If you have to pay someone else to build YOUR yacht it can be expensive. Designing and building is part of the fun (its not windy every weekend).

I love the mini class more than class 5 because I have the freedom to express and explore my ideas.

here we go again

another person wanting to do what they want and the rest of the world can go jump

seen it before

i shake my head

I guess there are two issues at play here also. Racing vs. novice entry into the sport, do novice sailors really need to be competitive racing? Would they ever be regardless of yacht? Windcrazy has a point too, anyone can still rock up and sail. And I would argue for any club/group to make sure this can happen. I doubt anyone would argue that you can be competitive without devoting considerable resources, practice likely being the number one.

But I wonder why the current FISLY 5.6mini rules, to which people have already been building to with varied and exotic results, has been deemed too restrictive?

Gizmo said..
Creating a TRUE international class for any sport is a chance that doesn’t come up often, it’s only happened a few of times in sports. Motor racing, cycling, and yachting, It’s there for the sport of land sailing worldwide at the moment with the mini 5.6 rule.

It needs to be done with a long term view of a sport rather than from a selfish personal biased view from a particular person or country.

FISLY have done an amazing job of formulating the first true world wide class of MINI 5.6 yet some people trying to manipulate the rules for their own personal reasons….why?

One of the reasons the sport has NOT flourished worldwide is there is NO flow through from beginners to top level competition, motorsport is a wonderful example of a well structured sport.

The MINI 5.6 is there to be an introduction to the sport for newcomers, often totally inexperienced women and children and on small sailing sites. Then moving on to more advanced race classes.

If groups create a fragmented versions of a class they undermine the ENTIRE sport not just that class.
This is what has happened in past with VERY poor results.

The proposed specs for the US 5.6 Mini is just plain stupid….. where are the newcomers in the US going to come into the sport?

What they will enter is full on ‘no restriction’ class that will cost an arm and leg.
Some of the high tech materials have and will be used just to ‘win’ in the class but at what cost….. All right for some with VERY selfish and personal reasons.

Please lets just have ONE Mini 5.6 class worldwide and promote the sport for all..

It needs to be done with a long term view of a sport rather than from a selfish personal biased view from a particular person or country.
Every rule change is a selfish biased view from a country or club or interested person otherwise who would change any thing if they had no interest in change

To all who comment here


I'm going to try and keep this topic friendly and not have it dissolve into something I will have to lock/delete later down the track. The subject is important and warrants discussion, and I know it can raise blood pressure accordingly.

Sorry JohnHS, I had to draw the line somewhere...

Sylk said..
I second the point that Chook made

Your new 5.6 definition includes kite buggies which in many cases will blow minis out of the water because they can carry so much more sail.

How about considering the consequences before jumping in the deep end.

wouldnt be very big kite buggies. how about build one that fits in the rope and we try it. you current axle would be rather wide perhaps

http://www.fisly.org/index.php?id=1

Lots of info if you go exploring the FISLY website.

Gizmo said..
http://www.fisly.org/index.php?id=1

Lots of info if you go exploring the FISLY website.

Thanks for your reply, Gizmo, but I had already looked at the FISLY site. The latest information on mini yacht rules is dated 2012. There is nothing on proposed rule changes or on a rules committee or how rule changes occur within FISLY.

Perhaps I just missed it?

I

Gizmo said..
When the mini 5.6 rules came in they were locked in for a period of 4 years to stop the constant changing of regulations, by doing so it has established some consistency.
So I doubt if there were to be changes in the future they would only be minor. Unfortunately the U.S. has tried to modify the rules to suit their own needs limiting the US yachts in international events and international yachts in US events, why people would go down that path is beyond me.

One of the reasons the Mini 5.6 rule came in was to establish a truly International yacht class.

If you were after more specific details about FISLY / rule changes etc. I suggest that you contact them directly rather than use a forum often based around speculation.

Thanks again, Gizmo. The 4 year period appears to end next year and, based on what Lachlan3556 posted above, it appeared that discussions of rules were already underway - somewhere by someone. I was just trying to find out what is being discussed.

I have no problems with the current International mini yacht specs. I do have some concerns about how the races are run, in particular, about the flying start for a race of more than 40 minis with no effective brakes, like last year at Smith Creek. Although I like the idea of a flying start for sailboats going ~6 - 10 knots, it doesn't seem very safe for a large number of minis going much faster.

Gizmo said..
I would have thought that actual localised race details are more of concern of the local site club / group rather than the International Sport Governing Body.
Who were the site / race organisers at Smith Creek?
Who devised the starting setup at that event, was it NALSA or FISLY or someone else?

I have to agree moving starts can often be a nightmare, stationary starts with the pilot in the yacht seem to be the standard for many places these days, I actually love running push starts.

www.fisly.org/rules/isrr.pdf

The event was organized by NALSA and the race master was from France as I recall. I believe the flying start was a FISLY rule for minis. NALSA classes all have standing or push starts.

barney831 said..
I have no problems with the current International mini yacht specs. I do have some concerns about how the races are run, in particular, about the flying start for a race of more than 40 minis with no effective brakes, like last year at Smith Creek. Although I like the idea of a flying start for sailboats going ~6 - 10 knots, it doesn't seem very safe for a large number of minis going much faster.

over the last few years we have trialed flying starts for both mini and class5, . lefroy is a great comparison for nUS sites as we both have big open areas for starting,
as the starter for most of those races here are my impressions.
2 minutes is too long, 1 minute would be fine , many yachts are onto a 3rd or fourth lap by the staart.
good pilots do it well ,bad pilots do it badly. the longer the start time the higher likelyhood of bingles.
in light to moderate winds ,class 5 yachts are fine , in fact its better in lighter winds,and the not so savvy pilots and heavier pilots place better with flying starts.
the only people who seem to complain are those who stress over 1 or 2 seconds over the line. the complaints are usually a tad silly , and being landsailors no problem has occured where the offended pilot has decide to fork out $15 a protest. Ive only seen 1 bingle where yacht damage has occured and in my opinion that was a case of throwing common sense out of the window in favour of demanding your rights even though you know the other yacht just cant manouver. in stronger winds class 5 needs a standing start.
in the one bit of video Ive seen of the minis starting in Nevada , my impressions were that a down wind start isnt a very good idea anyway, and the goodpilot/bad pilot observation applied .



Learning to get a good start ,standing or otherwise is one of the most critical parts of a race. most of the time the best starter is the winner, so go out on non race days and set up a course and spend the day starting , especially in light winds, add that to the days spent learning to corner and drift turn and you will soon improve

My concern about flying starts for the Mini 5.6 class stems from my understanding of the intent of the Mini class.

If, as Gizmo states above,

"The MINI 5.6 is there to be an introduction to the sport for newcomers, often totally inexperienced women and children and on small sailing sites. Then moving on to more advanced race classes."

then I believe a flying start is totally inappropriate.

The Mini 5.6 class at Smith Creek, however, was not a novice class. It contained an eclectic mix from homebuilts with wheelbarrow wheels to factory sponsored all-out racing machines. The pilots' experience spanned the spectrum from total neophytes to former champions in big boat classes with decades of racing experience. Not a good formula for a flying start IMHO.

Finally, if Gizmo is correct, why would a current or former world champion want to compete in a novice class? Is it because they still have an empty spot in their trophy case or is it simply a compulsive need to win?

On the other hand, if Gizmo is not correct, what is the intent of the Mini class? Perhaps this needs to be clarified first.