I Drean A Dream TOO !!!

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landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
22 Apr 2010 7:45pm
Gizmo said...

.

Water also reshapes the salt-encrusted landscape.
"If there is enough water in it for long enough the salt crust breaks up like pack ice," he said.


www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/beautiful-satellite-images-of-lake-frome/story-e6frea83-1225856599619


having spent a lot of time on salt lakes getting flooded, i would consider that statement a lot of cobblers. pack ice !!!!! my ar*e

landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
22 Apr 2010 8:02pm
beachball57 said...

joe
i honestly do not believe you are serious, tennis rackets for snow shoes or in this case mud shoes,

an interesting opinion BB57.
as somebody who has been paid to work in the 'slush zone' of salt lakes, both the winter 'wet sloppy' type and the summer' red sticky' types i think that there could be some merit in the idea.
since lefroy is cool and wet at the moment i was planning to take some tennis rackets and straps out to the lake and give it a go on some of the more accessible 'slush zones' we also have a decent trailer which we plan to load up to see what is a practical weight to try and manhaul in the slop. By we I mean TP1 , who always insists on giving it a go , no matter how sillyisnt that right TP1[}:)]
there are some aspects of what joe is talking about that deserve looking into, but its getting lost in whopping great rambles by joe and others rather than sticking to the possibilities and realities.
Maybe when they get weaned out we could have something fine tunable.
maybe the idea is being run on personality,which is a great fuel ,but it needs to power practicalities
It certainly doesnt need deleting

j murray
j murray
SA
947 posts
SA, 947 posts
23 Apr 2010 8:40am
I make no judgment on the post here, i don't consider it a bun fight, put

some relative information out here, in context instead of sledging. Not that it

really worries, fazes me. As for the remark on my version of a land yacht. If

you read the history you would be aware of very large heavy wooden yachts

that were used on the beaches way way back, 16th century. The could carry

around 30 people. Those ever ready to criticize may miss the real point, its

discussion, if one is pee brained enough to concider that I would endanger

myself or any other, then that's a problem of your own fertile imagination. To

even think [discuss] an possible event like this with out the required

maximum backup and support systems in place is foolish in she greatest

degree. Just because i have not as yet posted my version of these which

would include at least 2 atv's with trailers on the slush zone and salt. A wize

elderly man once said, never show unfinished work to the wife , or [he said]

idiots. This subject cannot be covered in a few simple posts. Highly Detailed

discussion is the only way to truthfully present this. If you can say it better

then please do. I am me, you are you. What ever you think of me, that your

opinion, right or wrong . What I may or may not think of you is reserved

Edit... the snow shoe thingy comes from Roma Dalhunty's book, The Spell of

Lake Eyre which if every one howling me down read they would discover

much of what they are baying about has already been experienced, by

many more experienced people than I . A local person [ who lived there ]

nearest the lake for most of his life, came out to visit the Dalhuntys, wearing

snow shoes, he said they help to walk an the slippery surface, when needed
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
23 Apr 2010 11:52am
landyacht said...

there are some aspects of what joe is talking about that deserve looking into, but its getting lost in whopping great rambles by joe and others rather than sticking to the possibilities and realities.
Maybe when they get weaned out we could have something fine tunable.
maybe the idea is being run on personality,which is a great fuel ,but it needs to power practicalities
It certainly doesnt need deleting



Paul I feel that this thread is possibly less than 20% usable... that means 80% unusable !!!! so why would you bother to keep it? You have stated yourself that you dont bother reading it as it is too long winded.
If the LLMini build thread you have posted was only 20% usable it would be discarded and regarded as a joke.
Whilst I agree everyone's contributions on the forum should be respected but the forum has a responsibilty to the community at large to be truthful, factual and relevant. This is not about personalities it is about facts.

Now think about this Paul if you insist on keeping this thread how will you feel 20+ years from now in your retirement home watching the news, of a family with a couple of young kids on a trip from Darwin to Adelaide in a 4WD who decided to stop off and have a sail on Lake Eyre with some small landyachts.
They sailed out onto the lake got bogged and perished just like the camels of the past.

How would you feel then Paul?

They had sometime earlier Googled "Lake Eyre + Land sail" and came across this thread and have taken ALL of Joe's advice as gospel, got bored with the long winded replies and ignored common sense, disregarded the advice of the SES and National park rangers and did it anyway just because "someone had a dream..."

How would you feel then Paul?

This is why I believe this thread MUST be deleted... I dont want this possibility on my conscience for the rest of my life......do you?
beachball57
beachball57
SA
540 posts
SA, 540 posts
23 Apr 2010 4:24pm
well i'm over it, past careing if Joe wants to go out there then i guess he has a right to do so, it won't be me coming to the rescue should it be needed so go ahead, give it a shot, if you pull it off you'll be able to say "see told you so" and i'm sure many will, abd if you don't pull it off well i guess we'll either see it on the tv news or read about it in the paper, either way you've achieved what you set out to do, cause controversy.
bb
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
23 Apr 2010 3:54pm
Gizmo said...

landyacht said...

there are some aspects of what joe is talking about that deserve looking into, but its getting lost in whopping great rambles by joe and others rather than sticking to the possibilities and realities.
Maybe when they get weaned out we could have something fine tunable.
maybe the idea is being run on personality,which is a great fuel ,but it needs to power practicalities
It certainly doesnt need deleting



Paul I feel that this thread is possibly less than 20% usable... that means 80% unusable !!!! so why would you bother to keep it? You have stated yourself that you dont bother reading it as it is too long winded.
If the LLMini build thread you have posted was only 20% usable it would be discarded and regarded as a joke.
Whilst I agree everyone's contributions on the forum should be respected but the forum has a responsibilty to the community at large to be truthful, factual and relevant. This is not about personalities it is about facts.

Now think about this Paul if you insist on keeping this thread how will you feel 20+ years from now in your retirement home watching the news, of a family with a couple of young kids on a trip from Darwin to Adelaide in a 4WD who decided to stop off and have a sail on Lake Eyre with some small landyachts.
They sailed out onto the lake got bogged and perished just like the camels of the past.

How would you feel then Paul?

They had sometime earlier Googled "Lake Eyre + Land sail" and came across this thread and have taken ALL of Joe's advice as gospel, got bored with the long winded replies and ignored common sense, disregarded the advice of the SES and National park rangers and did it anyway just because "someone had a dream..."

How would you feel then Paul?

This is why I believe this thread MUST be deleted... I dont want this possibility on my conscience for the rest of my life......do you?

wow gizmo!
I think a family that popped out to lake eyre on th advice given here and got bogged and died were probably gonna do it somewhere sometime.
doing this kind of thing with a "she'll be right" attitude is asking for trouble, so it therefore needs to be discussed.
things Ive learnt so far from the thread are that there has been a good book written of somebody elses travels on the lake, that isnt just sensationalist news stories
. I will now endeavour to get a copy to read myself. info on such challenging terrain is hard to find, usually stored in peoples heads so others have to go out and learn the hard way. I spent 4 years full time on the salt at lefroy and all the knowledge I had accumulated was lost within months because my final report was archived..
the only issue I have with the thread is the 80% waffle(didnt read your lastpost past the 5th line joe) That needs looking at by the posters.
If 20% was applied in the paper print world gizmo we could do away with newspapers, magazines, national geographic, vogue(up to 50pages before the articles!. I do believe we could do some good for the planet!
perhaps the posters could clean up thier post and then we can discuss some of the more practical aspects of what is required for the trip , what can be realistically achieved, find out more info on what has already been done.
Basically things that would be of use to the family out on Lake Eyre
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
23 Apr 2010 6:05pm
Paul, Thanks for your imput, disagree totally but thats what forums are about.
This thread despite many concerns/complaints from multiple people, even complaints directly to admin went unheard...like Beachball "Im over it"
If this is the direction the forum is going I personally will be very selective in what contributions I make in the future and will not be directing/recommending this forum to Landsailers worldwide that I have contact with on a regular basis, this thread on the forum has become a joke.
On a more personal note I will be very selective in the future in how much support I give to individuals as the saying goes "Im not anyones mug"
Angry, annoyed, frustrated, bitter and twisted you betcha!!!!! but also so disappointed in the intregity and common sense of some on the forum
Can this sport afford this type of negativity.....not my problem.
beachball57
beachball57
SA
540 posts
SA, 540 posts
23 Apr 2010 7:22pm
well i am over it i thought this site was for discussing land sailing not this sort of rubbish and whats more just turned into a mud, nay a salt slinging match, like i said, go ahead carry on like a bunch of pork chops i wonder how ever what someone on the other side of the globe would be thinking of all this.
As for me well i'll just get info from where i can from now on and go it alone i think this is just to silly for words
bb
bazl
bazl
WA
704 posts
WA, 704 posts
23 Apr 2010 6:47pm
Gizmo said...

Paul, Thanks for your imput, disagree totally but thats what forums are about.
This thread despite many concerns/complaints from multiple people, even complaints directly to admin went unheard...like Beachball "Im over it"
If this is the direction the forum is going I personally will be very selective in what contributions I make in the future and will not be directing/recommending this forum to Landsailers worldwide that I have contact with on a regular basis, this thread on the forum has become a joke.
On a more personal note I will be very selective in the future in how much support I give to individuals as the saying goes "Im not anyones mug"
Angry, annoyed, frustrated, bitter and twisted you betcha!!!!! but also so disappointed in the intregity and common sense of some on the forum
Can this sport afford this type of negativity.....not my problem.


If its that bad Brian why not set up another worldwide forum? That way you can be the admin and decide what is 'integrity and common sense'.

j murray
j murray
SA
947 posts
SA, 947 posts
23 Apr 2010 10:28pm
I prepare my post’s or rants as some call them off line, the afternoon of the day before posting. I have no idea of what has been written until I’m ready to post, My reasons for this is so I can keep my phone line open in case I wish to check some point, I do enter into other correspondence with certain party’s that could have some pertinent input or even the power of veto, to a successful outcome , for me. Others may say Hurrah! So what.

Are any of you others doing this type of thing, probably not. When I get return mail from some, at this time flooded stations and businesses, I will post my original letter’s and the reply I receive, if any. I am not relying on mates and hearsay. My own knowledge, and that of people in the forum who can sort the chaff from the wheat, I back that up with real knowledge, scientific and first hand, first person, observations. Of people who know more than I on Lake Eyre and surrounds.

As previously stated this post concerns any definition of land yacht and a bit of history on vehicles that have been used successfully on the lake from around the late 50’s

There were not many people until around 1961 that knew very much about the lake at all. Even the locals didn’t know that the lake held a clear or white salt area that was very, very large. There were no private station aircraft in use. Commercial aircraft also not many. These followed the rail track, lest they get lost. Fuel refills were only available at settlements along the rail.

Why would anyone wish to travel across a big nothing. The lake as the locals said at the time, why bother to even think about it, it is none of their business. When it was rumored that Donald Campbell was to try for the worlds land speed record, for a gearbox driven speedster car on Lake Eyre. They all thought it a bush story, just like the ones I tell, someone was pulling their leg.

Not so, DC turned up with his entourage of road builders and camp managers with support from the good people of Woomera and all sorta government departments, including the PMG who installed towers and a post office, to let the world know how it was all going. I think that was the first Muloorina Station had the luxury of an electricial generator.

They bought with them many different vehicles for jobs on the lake and I would like to list a few. Morris 4x4’s, Mercedes 4x4, Rolls Royce 4x4, Landrover 4x4, Jeep 4x4. Large semi trailers possibly of the Leyland Comet range, to transport Bluebird, Road graders, Bulldozer, Tractors, Towed Road/surface milling machines, Road rollers, Vip cars, more likely Humbers, Holden Hillman, a Customline or two and more, These all went out onto the lake where the course had been selected.

Over the following years many other vehicles were introduced onto the salt for many other purposes including regular station work. Motor Bikes, Mini Mokes, Toyota 4x4, Halfinger, Ute and light trucks, Drilling rigs and on and on.

The Dalhunty’s when they first came with their three wheel Hondas caused a bit of interest as they were the first people in the outback to use them. Of course the flat earth society said, “ They’ll all be doomed !”.. “ that’s for sure “ But it was not to be, these people who had never ridden one before and even had never been upon the lake, spent years there and their largish tires did over 3700 ks upon the lake without so much as one puncture

According to Roma, a lady, they preformed their task admirably and were a joy to ride upon, we may never have succeeded without them.

So to land yachts and the story of the one that went there, nothing written has been found yet. I have written to Muloorina asking if anyone there can shed some light on said unit, paper wize. I suspect that most people accessed the lake thru the station , their web site indicates an interest in what is now called tourism, and they have done much over the years to assist people in good health and in trouble.

Donald Campbell did break the world land speed record on Lake Eyre July 9th 1964, achieving a two way run at over 648.587kph over the measured 1.609km, which must be very close to the old mile. The first known plane landing on the salt was in 1961.

Graige Bredlove an American soon stole the land speed record on Lake Bonneville, U.S.A., I think before Campbell was killed in His boat of the same name

So what I think may be a suitable set up for a landyacht on the lake . There are slush zones, hard wet zones, hard wet and soft zones, there are absolute bogs. And there is rough salt and smooth salt. I personally am going to keep my distance from the bogs, but sometimes the crust may only support one traverse, but not a second. It is/seems best not to follow in someone else’s wheel tracks.

There will be boggy or slippery surfaces that one has to cross or go round, at some times. As landyacht has spoken of, and beachball.

The photographer who shot the short film “SALT “ had a mountain bike with a trailer. Which he pushed over the slush zones. Loaded with food and water and gear, around 100kg I think he said. He stayed out for around a month at a time and did it six years in succession to acquire the footage he wanted. He may have had to partake in portage, as canoeists may be experienced of. I have had to portage motor vehicles, I don’t like it, but.

That sorta stuff is for discussion later. Ones land yacht needs to be able to transport a bit more gear than usual. Your food, water, sleeping gear clothes, etc. around 8x2 liters of water per cart. Extra will be in bigger carts and back up atv’s. depending on a lot of factors as to what these supports can be loaded up with reliability and safely.

It seems from research that around 100mm ground clearance would keep one out of most trouble, with wider rounder tires to spread the weight.

A push type handle like a lawnmower style could be an asset and at all times 20 foot of rope tied handily around the front somewhere, could be good. Easily accessible when needed. One again any canoeist would have this attachment in place.

Your cart needs to be able to be pushed and steered at the same time, try it, not easy eh? Wheels should be at a distance away from any structural part of the cart to allow accumulated mud/slush to not drag or interfere with rolling ability.

Trucks cars and 4x4,s sometimes have to have the wheel arches dug out by shovel, on bush highways after rain, a mongrel job. Push bikes also, it’s not fun. But it only needs doing sometimes. One may strike the lake with none of this required.

Front wheel drive cars seem to do better in these sticky clayey conditions. A 4x4 is not able always to offer the occupants clear sailing.

Donald Campbell’s Bluebird was 9.144 meters long, 2.438 width, 4,358.4 kilograms weight and produced 5,000 horse power. Muloorina is an Aboriginal word said to mean “ pace of plenty “
agutfull
agutfull
WA
12 posts
WA, 12 posts
23 Apr 2010 10:23pm
Thanks to you all for distroying this sport, you have a lot to answer for.You have killed my interest ,and any more involvement , thank you all , could put a lot of swear words here but this forum is a waste of space .
Test pilot 1
Test pilot 1
WA
1430 posts
WA, 1430 posts
23 Apr 2010 11:12pm


.
since lefroy is cool and wet at the moment i was planning to take some tennis rackets and straps out to the lake and give it a go on some of the more accessible 'slush zones' we also have a decent trailer which we plan to load up to see what is a practical weight to try and manhaul in the slop. By we I mean TP1 , who always insists on giving it a go , no matter how sillyisnt that right TP1[}:)]
It certainly doesnt need deleting


Some thing I live by:- I'll try "anything" once. Like sailing in a lightning streaked thunder storm. If I dont survive that once, then I'll say "may be I shouldn't have tried that!"
hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
24 Apr 2010 8:37am
Ok I think this has deteriated off the topic enough to be closed down (not due to your post TP1).
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