heccles said...
how is the sails going dont hear much about them.

I have had several good chats with Dennis at SAILS. He also gave me some great advice when I was building my PM. He still has a small band of keen landsailors meeting down the southeast. I've been told that a percentage of the people who started SAILS eventually returned to ALYC as their issues were resolved, however Dennis kept SAILS going.

I'm glad there are 2 clubs in Adelaide and I would very much like to see them both succeed. I think its a big enough place to be a "2 club town", plus I'd like somewhere else to sail when the tide is in!

Oh c'mon! give us a chance. I don't live with David ya know!

Yeah I think Paul wants to clarify if the comment about the sail size being increased to 4.5m2 as previously stated is correct or not.

Oops I hope no one saw me mispell sail in that post

Ha, thanks mate, next thing I'll mispell yot

I was reading the class 5 specs tonight (as you do ) and it stated that the sail size was increased to 5.5m2 but at the same time the way they measured sails changed to include the luff round. I wonder if the same thing happend for class 6??

The wording of (outside of wheels) was added at a time when pilots woul measure the yachts with one set of wheels and then race with a bigger set. the main wheel to be changed was the front . 16"bicycle on a hard smooth surface, 20"bicycle,for hard but rough ,wheelbarrow tyre for soft days. Setting an overall length stopped the arguements. width was measured by rolling between 2 post, but not with the pilot in. that part was for class 5 because with the chassis and wheels the Europeans were and still are using on cl 5 allow it to be significantly wider under sail.

Re. Blokart spec. the 2 used on lefroy minis are wheelbase only. BLOKART now has an absurd 5.5m? sail.way over the top for lefroy. We are using the relevant FISLY measuring system for our sails as it was the only one weve yet been able to download and redily apl.

http://www.fisly.org/index.php?id=2 (pages 50-51)

My query re the extra .25m of sail stem from my present sailmaking efforts. when I recut a sail I draw onto the sail to be recut, then measure to make sure it is not going to go over spec , then cut and sew. On lake lefroy 4.25 is as much sail as you would want to put on our minis. If I'm going to recut a sail for a softer,slower surface like say lake gillies some of our bigger pilots may want a bigger sail. Therefore I and others need to know the max sail area,and most importantly the measuring system used..
We currently have some new profesionally sails here that were Bought as 5.5m2 sails but measure by FISLY rules at 5.78m2 . it cost us too much to frieght back and forth to the sailmaker again and again for him to get it right.
Always keep in mind that NZLYA got so up its self on people pushing rules that most of the pilots left , many now sail blokarts as they feel they know where they stand and the rules are set by the manufacturer

I rely on the opinion of Bill Finch , who spent a lot of time on the surface with a number of yachts, including VINDICATOR on the lake . I have sailed cl 5 and 6 on its neighbour Lake Finnis. a lake with the same geological and chemical origins. I have a number of good photographs of the wheel tracks away from the hard edges of the lake. ready comparison can be made with the catelogue of photographic data and hardness readings taken from similar lakes in SA, WA , and VIC. when you combine this with the small test pits dug on the lake to study the Gypsum content and its crystal nature and interlacking capacity, you tend to build up sense of what the surface is like.
naturaly Ive extensively watched footage of various yachts sailing on it and all the other lakes /surfaces I have sailed on and this is also of great value .. Obviously I get detailed oral reports from other club members who have sailed there and compare that to previous years reports, tie that in with rainfall data . One would assume that everybody else does this,if not maybe they should,
perhaps Im just a freak of nature who needs to know the why of it

But measured with or without the pocket?

Perhaps Boogie could let us know where His OFFICIAL increase in sail area came from . the poet adds 0.35 ---0.40 to the sail area. I dont want to get disqualified before racing. so lets get this one sorted, please

hills said...

Yeah, thats a good idea Heccles. David Rose has posted the original class 6 specs in the photos section, see below. He states they are approved by ALSA and FISLY.

Are you considering building one?

I was doing a google search and found this site about class 6 land yachts.
I’m Brian Reynolds and noticed the original specs I had recommended in 1985.

The reason for Class 6 was that the ALSA regarded class 5 to be “The Race Class”
Class 6 was to be an “open class” to encourage newcomers, women and children to the sport as Class 5 was getting pretty full on.
(Although ALSA left it up to individual clubs to foster Class 6 if they felt the need to.)
Another reason was to have a yacht that was simple to build, looked good and could be sailed in shopping centre car parks with lots of public exposure which in turn feeds the Class 5 with completive sailors.
Referring to the original specs (posted on this site on 13/12/10) the design principle was simple…

1. Max width 1.8m
This was to enable small yachts to be easily transported and stored even the “Free flight” built yachts to fall into the class.
2. Max length of 2.25m
This was to level out some of the yachts, as many different wheels were tried from small sack truck size to 20” BMX bike wheels.
3. Max sail Area 4.25sqm
4.25 sqm was found to be safe and sufficient for learners, women & children
4. No moving seat
This was to simplify design and for safety
5. No covering OVER the pilot.
This to provide little chance of being trapped inside a yacht (as some fragile enclosed designs were starting to emerge on paper) like mini “sanderlings” again for safety
6. Round section mast only
Some fancy designs of wing masts were also being thought about which again would make the yacht design complex and going away from the original concept of class 6
7. NO sail fairings in or on the sail
The idea of a sail covered foam shape was also thought about thus going towards rigid sails.

It’s actually a pity it hasn’t seem to have taken off as it has HUGE potential to promote LAND SAILING
The design is so open to good clever design and use of materials such as moulded fibreglass, Aluminium, Plastics and good sail/ rig design etc, to make some GREAT yachts.

My personal thought is that if you were to build a yacht to ALL of Class 6 MAXIUM specs you would probably have a very easy to sail “SLUG” ……
CHANGE some of the relationships of measurements to each other and with good design and attention to detail you will do well ….

I hope this helps a little with why Class 6 yachts evolved……

Regards Brian Reynolds

Yeah, welcome Brian and thanks for that excellent info!!

Sounds like pretty sound reasoning behind starting class 6 IMHO. AS Bazl says its not too late. With the availability of Blokarts and soon Phoenix class 6s and Lake Lefroy minis hopefully landyachting in general will become more popular.

I hope you stick around and share more of that wealth of knowledge with us

gizmo1160 said...
It’s actually a pity it hasn’t seem to have taken off as it has HUGE potential to promote LAND SAILING
The design is so open to good clever design and use of materials such as moulded fibreglass, Aluminium, Plastics and good sail/ rig design etc, to make some GREAT yachts.

This is the real nitty gritty, with the emphasis on "to make some GREAT yachts."

Hillsy, What does IMHO mean? Is it I Must Hastily Object?

cisco said...

I like this one Brian, quite CRYPTIC if you don't mind me saying so.

Are you going to expand on that or do we all have to figure and trial and error that one out??

Hi cisco ... WELL WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO START !!!!!!
BUT Im not going to give an exact answer as there are a lot of variations that suit your sailing locations.

My first aim is to make people "think" as it will make you a much better yacht builder and sailor if you know how things work.

If your into physics and HEAVY reading ( it makes war and peace look like an easy read) check this book "ISBN 0396077390" ( google the number for book details)
its NOT a cheap book so ask the library ..
(this was the book i used lots in the yacht " WILDFIRE --- Designed by computer" & the "Sandpiper" class 6 commonly known as plastic ducks!!! by some)

Well cisco you first need to think about where you sail is the surface hard, med, or soft, sealed, grass, sand, salt, clay pans etc?
and then is it rough, bumpy, or smooth, loose surface stones etc?

Do you want a smooth ride or can you put up with the bumps?

do you need good steering or GREAT steering? ie.for carparks

is the wind nomally light, med ,strong, or lots more?

is the wind clean or disturbed ?

are you after speed or power? (eg tractors have power with lots of grunt, gocarts have speed but not much grunt)

do you want high performance or a pleasant yacht for the wife and kids?

That will do for the moment just to get you thinking ..... every ones ideas WILL be different so dont worry if yours are not the same as others.

Cheers Brian

bazl said...

Yeah I saw but I wont tell anybody

But I understood Paul said he was using blokart specs. I dont believe blokart have a 4.5m sail, according to the bk catalog its either 3 or 4m.

WE are indeed using BLOKARt wheelbase sizes. we allowed bigger sails than 4m because some of our heavier sailors were clearly disavantaged in a light wind. we are trying to keep our construction rules as loose as possible to see what is possible. the yachts are so small that aven if you added exotic composites to the formula they would still be cheap to do.
since all this started blokart now have a 5.5m sail for the very same reason

That was another yacht built ( Ithink ) by bruce Biddle. one year the yacht was blak with genuine coffin fittings which he had to return to the undertakers after the regatta. ( I kid you not) .
The yacht was built along the chooks lines and was the main competition that Bill faced