Are there any with two wheels in front and one in the rear where the rear wheel is fixed, and the front wheels steer?

The tip over safety would still be in question, but it would not have the 'tiller wag' described above.....

desertyank said...

Are there any with two wheels in front and one in the rear where the rear wheel is fixed, and the front wheels steer?

The tip over safety would still be in question, but it would not have the 'tiller wag' described above.....

I have often found that if a person is thinking of an idea the chances are that someone else at some time previously has thought of the very same thing, there are actually very few "new ideas"

How many times in life has a new person all gung ho with minimal knowledge joined a company or workplace with the aim to radically change the way things are to be done?.... they come in with zest and vigour and turn the place over and introduce new systems only to find that the old system that evolved over time was the most efficient way to go.

I now look at new ideas with different eyes and ask the question, why hasn't an idea be used before (as it certainly would have been thought about before) is it way to complex?, is the result actually worth the effort?, or is it even workable at all?
So back to rear steering... It has been used before we know that, so why isn't it being used currently? My conclusion, it is less efficient or practical than the system that has replaced it.... evolution. If it was better, yachts would still be built with that sort of steering. Isn't this thread "Ultimate Minis" or should it be "Less than Ultimate Minis" maybe Rear Steering would be better in a thread of its own so its there for people that ask the same question in the future, its certainly worthy of discussion.
The original thread started out with how far forward could a Mini yacht be advanced technically?

As I mentioned there are very few new ideas and most things evolve, a few of my favorite "new" original inventions that come to mind is the "Windsurfer", "Australia 2 wing keel" "Microwave oven" the "Segway" and "Touch screens" but I suppose they would have evolved over time from ideas of the designer.

Maybe better to split the thread...

Below some pages from SAND OR LANDYACHTS by Millett Denning, 1955. Millett Denning was the builder of the Coronation Years, gigantic yachts with two or three men on board, rear steering and very very heavy because he believed only weight could help to get great speed. In continental Europe the "official" end of the rear steering was about 1959 when the main designer of its times, Willy Coppens, started to build a front steering yachts for safety reasons. He was shocked by a deathly collision brought about by a stern steering yacht out of control. On a landyacht (in its times? in every times?) the sail pressure was too forward, leaving the rear steering wheel too light, increasing the tendency to spinning.

Landsailingdarwinism!

Ciao - Enrico

Back to the original thread.... "Ultimate Minis"
There are many examples of people pushing the design envelope of land yachts, yes many are just concepts but it does get you thinking what could be viable in the future.

Nikrum said...

My Q to Gizmo is Has anyone bothered to query ADLandyachts on the cost of his CF Pod?? That is if he is prepared to divulge it..

Ron send him a PM... but you need to get 2 prices, the first is the cost of a pod and the other is freight costs....
I actually have an old F/G kayak / sit on surf ski that I keep looking at for a Class5 pod (with a bit of cut and join)

Nikrum said...

I say! Sir! You misunderstand my meaning. Would that I had the $$$. My thoughts were towards the rough costing of a full CF Beast such as one of those concept units. Building something in that line, I should imagine wouldn't leave much change out of 6 or 7 grand?? Hmm?. A well off mans project.
Ron

I have never priced or used CF. But Ron what sort of shape yacht are you llooking for?
I have often thought of re-vamping the "Sandpiper" yacht, knowing what we now know it could be a lot better.

gibberjoe said...

Thanks Colk.......you have thrown a hand grenade of common sence

into this forum...I didn't notice any real problem with the rear steerers

featured there maybe the builders were free thinkers exersizing their

individual minds and not being "flockers".....

Hey Joe, when you build your 5.6m compliant rear steerer, test it alongside a regular mini and let us know how you go?

makes it very hard if you are looking for information on a thread and the topic changes half way through

ChrisClarke said...
Of course, this supposes that 'more power' is the way to more speed, whereas the real solution is probably 'less drag'.

This is a misconception that often water sailors have.... Let me put it this way a tractor has lots of power but low speed and a F1 race car has less power but goes at high speed.
And that is in fact why most sails need to be re-cut for land yachts. The draft (cross section shape) is the what its all about.
More draft= More power and less speed (but ideal for sailing on grass or soft beaches)
Small draft=Less power but higher speeds (ideal for hard surfaces like salt lakes, car parks and hard beaches)

And your right its about aero drag a 4m sail will work better than a 5m sail with 1m flapping.

Try this drive down the road at 60km/h and fully put your arm out the car window, how much wind drag is on you arm? This is the sort of winds land yachts are sailing in. Yes aero drag is HUGE.

I think the way to the "Ultimate Mini" is how you deal with aero drag and how to minimise it.

Something else that strikes me passing strange is that no one has mentioned the Centrifugal Force thing is fast sharp turns? With all the Pilot Mass the Butt end of the unit is going to want to keep going around in the turn resulting in a spin out that is going to want to pelt the Pilot to Buggery and gone as demonstrated in that Ice Yacht Vid'. At least with the steering of today that can be counter steered out of a Spin--------------------providing one has tire traction.

Ron

Gawdstruth! That could have been filmed while Noah was building his Arc if it weren't for the cars.. Front steerers win again and less and less I like the idea of the Stern Steerers. Anything that puts the Mass Distribution in favour of Centrifugal Force has to be bad.
Ron

Dragging this one back round to 'ultimate minis' Heres a few photos for easily do-able ideas. Chassis is stainless steel, bulk of the strength comes from the GRP though, GRP axle, front wheel can unbolt and an extension piece be fitted to extend the wheel base.







Total weight for the lot is 49kg.

Cheers Col