Do you mean replace with a jib? Or do you mean add complication of two sheet ropes and steering = 3 hands

I have to confess that I have kept quiet during this thread, as I had already built (and crashed) a stern steerer 3 times before this thread had begun.
Greg (with his dog below) had drawn a stern steerer on my welding bench with engineers chalk and every time I walked past it stared me in the eye. I weakened and built it the next weekend.
Even when "landyacht" visited me, I had to hide it in the bush behind my shed to keep it secret. Also thanks "sn" for keeping it close to your chest.
Greg was a huge help with the finer design parameters.

"Cock tail" can now be revealed, as it was sailed at Lake Lefroy last weekend with good results. It didn't compete as it didn't for fill, the parameters of 5.6 mini. It was just a fun machine for those that had the balls to sail it.


Here is the date when it was first completed and I painted it. The testing/“crashing” took place the next few days.


The reason about the secrecy was I was still trying to sort it out and get it stable. Just to prove that it might be able to be done.
It was reassuring when I saw the video clips posted in the previous page.

The problem was the tests were done in light wind, on a wet boggy surface with a huge sail that just got me to the scene of the accident quicker. It lasted 11 minutes on the GPS before having to rebuild it the first time. The mast dug in when the wheel bogged and it wasn't pretty.

This is it in it’s original configuration and it was much too light on the rear wheel. Even with the adjustable axle position right forward under the forward seat position. Originally it had only 16kgs on the rear wheel and I weigh 110kgs.
It is pictured here with 8.4 mt2 of sail for the first test run.
After the first crash it looked like it had been thumped on top of the mast and looked like a squashed spider. I wasn't hurt.


The chassis after the first crash.


After the 3rd rebuild. See the new seat position now. It is fitted here with a seat (off my yacht I raced last weekend) till I knew where to make the cut outs for the steering pedals on the stern steerer.

It doesn't fit the mini class as I originally wanted, due to making it more stable with a slightly bigger footprint for testing and my insurance.

I have sailed it in very high winds and managed 77.1 kmh with it.

I rebuilt it and I sailed it on the shire “side show area” of our local Agricultural Grounds in Esperance only to end up with tyres full of punctures due to all the thorns in the grassed area.

When rebuilt I made it all adjustable, which added much weight, but made it easy to adjust one item at a time to get the centre of effort correct. (I went down to a 5.7 mtr sail as well)


Everything is adjustable fore and aft to get it balanced.


There was a lot of guessing and head scratching but last weekend I was very happy with it. Just need to sail it in a gale now.
It is very sensitive to the steering but very controllable. The steering rod is well clear of the fibreglass seat so as all can be adjusted without it fouling when steering. The control arm on the rear wheel needs to be much longer to make the steering less sensitive.


The rear wheel has “forward” trail built into it, just like a Lake Lefroy Mini, as when steering inputs are made the wheel leans the correct way to take the load applied by the sail and resists sliding.
By doing this, I have proved that I can certainly have less weight on the rear wheel. Although when it is well over powered or to much wrong input given, it pirouettes beautifully.

It has now been adjusted and further sailed by a few sailors that were game at Lefroy with good feedback except for the opposite steering inputs required.

I didn't have a problem, as it is like an aircraft "push right rudder" and it turns right. Where as Paul spat it and left it in the middle of the lake and walked back shouting,” to set it the right way round”. As a pilot of light aircraft, I found the steering second nature, and so did most of the test pilots over the weekend.
Testing will continue and it’s been a fantastic project.

Thanks heaps for your design help and inputs Greg.

Here is Ron taking it for a test run last weekend at Lake Lefroy West Australia. It's a 5.7 cambered sail. The lumps of salt on the lake by the mast were really unusual and very solid.

I love a challenge. Been heap of fun along the way too.

Thanks Stephen.

When Vic "AUS 230" helped me unload from my trailer at Lefroy, he thought it was tangled up with another yacht I had bought. Had him confused for a few seconds.

You were most welcome Vic.

Just about under way for the first time on Lefroy here.

nooooo,nooooo,noooooo,noooooo..........................................stupidity unleashed,stop tempting the plebs chook

I went for a walk on our local Pink Lake in Esperance and it's almost sailable. Just a few sloshy spots. So more testing shortly.
The local surface is not as nice as the holy grail of all sailing surfaces Lake Lefroy West Australia.


In the meantime back to building.

A "REVERSE" Y-frame?

At least then the wheel wouldn't "toe-in" under load, like all the conventional ones I've seen.

That is my point Hiko.
When the Y axle is compressed, the wheel toes-in a considerable amount. This is particularly noticeable on 26" wheels.

Just pick up the front of a yacht slightly and listen to the tyres scrubbing on concrete as you move it forward. It sounds awful.

It must have an effect on rolling resistance. I guess the bonus of the flex in the axle is the smoothness of the ride and less sail shake.

The only advantages I feel now with a Y frame is, to get the pilot CofG lower and a bit smoother ride.
The sail shake is a thing of the past.

With the "sail set up" Greg and I now use, there is no longer any such thing as sail shake.
It has been completely eliminated, under all sailing conditions.

interesting thoughts on alignment. my finding is that on yachts that spend all thier time trying to control alignment i got lots of tyre wear.
with the Y just the right and the axles just the right length and just the right front flexand the chassis twist reduced by good chassis design the tyres hardly wear. remember tha flat lefroy is the exception , most locations are rougher. I suspect chooks advantage is the weekends failed class 5 marathon would have been his vertical wheels, but a couple of knots wind change would have ruined that

Thanks for that chook I think I will give it a go on my LLf mini I need a bit more sail area anyway and if that setup will handle strong winds as well
Well it sounds great