I'm after some advice

i currently have a couple of C4's and i will be doing a crossing over open ocean later in the year and i was wondering if size for size (of the same year) do the edges have more power than the c4's

the reason for asking is i am heavier than the average rider (102kg)and although the recommended sizes for the crossing by the organizers is a nine and a 12m for the predicted wind conditions (and an 80kg rider )
i plan to take a larger kite (13 or 14m maybe) just in case and would like to stick with ozone preferably

There was a story in the Kiteworld Mag #57 June '12. A guy circumnavigated Isle of Wright using C4s, a TT, and SB.
Check that out if you can dig up that story on google, but anyway I would have thought the edge was a better tool for the job. I ride '12 model C4s and there are a very versatile kite but can't touch the upwind ability to my mates on Edges.

So consider what type of crossing you are doing, broad reach, or down winder.
Re sizes I'm usually on 12m while most of the edge riders are on 9m and weigh 80kg.
Maybe a 10m and 13m in C4 or 9m and 11m in Edge would be good for you???

what crossing are you talking about ?

Dusta - I'm not trying to be all secretive . . . . . I'd just prefer not to get specific with the crossing details as it is for a relatively small group (possibly already full) and out of respect for the organizers who themselves have chosen not to promote it on open forums . . . i don't want to cause any problems for them . . . .even if that is just a few unnecessary emails for them to answer


That said . . . . Thanks guys that was what i already suspected and exactly the info i was looking for.
Having thought about it a bit more i might buy two edges to be on the safe side

One final question for you edge owners out there is there much difference between the 2011, 2012 and the 2013 models as there are some deals to be had on some brand new (old stock) edges from various kite shops

airjunkie said...
Dusta - I'm not trying to be all secretive . . . . . I'd just prefer not to get specific with the crossing details as it is for a relatively small group (possibly already full) and out of respect for the organizers who themselves have chosen not to promote it on open forums . . . i don't want to cause any problems for them . . . .even if that is just a few unnecessary emails for them to answer

i wasn't asking for an invite to this secret crossing , was just curious as to where and how far this crossing is .

airjunkie said...

dusta said...
i wasn't asking for an invite to this secret crossing , was just curious as to where and how far this crossing is .

i wasn't trying to be secretive i was just trying to be considerate to the organizer who is just one person. . . but after seeing the other thread relating to this event posted by the guys from P.N.G. (with regard to the donated gear) i did a forum search on here and it turns out the event was advertised on this forum by a site sponsor last year so i guess it's ok to post it

the crossing or island hopping is approx 200km from north Queensland to Papua New Guinea it is the middle leg of a triathlon of sorts preceded by a 700km bike ride to the coast and followed up by completing the Kokoda Track


but so as the thread doesn't get to far off topic
for the Ozone edge riders out there is there much difference between the 2011, 2012 and the 2013 models ?

. . . . as there are some deals to be had on some brand new (old stock) edges from various kite shops

lol the crossing puppet was organising ?

and there is a major difference in 2012 to 2013 edges according to retailers

The flying of the edges is a much more relaxed action compared to the c4, and imo would be the perfect kite for long distances, they really are a smooth kite , however if on a race board or surf board they can get overpowered, I've had the edges since their release the biggest improvment was between 2010 to 2011 , with very little changes between 2012 and 2013, a good edging tt would be my prefered board

i disagree wuth Cauncy's advice saying the edge is relaxing. It most certainly is not a relaxing kite to fly unless underpowered. sure you can park it. but the power and speed it builds is signifant compared to other kites. particularily in gusty conditions it can be a fight to shut the power down or control board speed.

Both c4 and cat are easier kites to fly and get the best out of.

I'd ask is this adventure kiting crossing thing your doing a downwinder? or is it cross wind or upwind?

if its downwinding then the worst kite to get for that will be an edge. your better to go for the lower aspect cat in that instance.

Plummet said...
i disagree wuth Cauncy's advice saying the edge is relaxing. It most certainly is not a relaxing kite to fly unless underpowered. sure you can park it. but the power and speed it builds is signifant compared to other kites. particularily in gusty conditions it can be a fight to shut the power down or control board speed.

Both c4 and cat are easier kites to fly and get the best out of.

I'd ask is this adventure kiting crossing thing your doing a downwinder? or is it cross wind or upwind?

if its downwinding then the worst kite to get for that will be an edge. your better to go for the lower aspect cat in that instance.

well i dont lay back smoking a cigar and read a book whilst flying my edge but they are a much more friendly relaxed kite to fly than a c4, and riding style comes into play , if the 2 kites were on the beach waiting for me to use on a ocean crossing id be deflating the c4 and putting it in its bag, not saying that the c4 wouldnt do the job infact most kites would be up to the task, ive been out tonight in 30 plus on my nine with major gusts and holes and the kite was as smooth as silk but as i said you need a seriously good edging board, not sure of the downwind limitations as ive not exsperienced it on any edges ive had, if you get a demo then youll know what im talking about

I agree with Cauncy and Eppo as well - I bought a 9m and 13m Edge about a month ago (thanks to Eppo and others for the reviews) and am loving these kites! The power is so consistent, I find this leads to a very relaxing ride. You do have to edge (sometimes edge hard). Fortunately I am used to edging hard from the old ARX days (where you had to depower by edging). But being a heavier rider (100kg)I would much rather have a kite with plenty of power than one I where I really have to work it to get decent speed up. And the Edge has loads of power.

I also have a lower back problem and have found that this kite works really well for my back, since I can just lean right into the harness instead of standing more upright and working the crap out of the kite. It does lead to a bit more speed over the chop (which is not so good for the back), but the advantages outweigh the disadvantages and my back is a lot better for it!

My previous kite was a slightshot rally, not a bad kite (until the leading edge just popped while I was flying it), but it really needed to be worked to get the most out of it. Edges are powerful and need to be flown carefully in certain situations, but for the most part it leads to a very sit-back-and-enjoy-the-speed ride. Oh - and the jumps are f#$ken awesome.

well i seem to be in the minority. perhaps its because i'm still on a 2010 egde. maybe the latest models are more mellow?

to be fair if you can edge like a mofo then there is no problem. you then control power output by controlling board speed.

rode my 15m speed 3 today when otheres were on 10's and 12's. now thats like hooking into a freaken train!.

Fun.

2010 Edge is nowhere near as refined as the 2012, and the 2013 is smooth as silk in comparison. You simply could not do what the race guys do without the gust munching smoothness that the current Edges have.
I'd go 9 and 13 or 10 and 13

I was out on the 9M C4 2013 tonight, thought I'd try it on the 10M Cat bar (50cm 25M lines, longer depower). Wind was gusty for here, ranging 22-30 I was on a Nobile NHP 2013 1.34 x 42 with 30mm fins at 22 I had to work the kite hard, at 30 I was lit and it was hard to push upwind. This years C4 sits back a bit compared to the Edge, when I pushed hard it went upwind ok, but nothing like an Edge.

For a crossing like that a chopstick would be ok, better would be something with some bottom shape, like the board I rode tonight, also the Cab Custom in the 1.44 size. You need to be able to rest your back leg by switching easily to toeside, much easier to do with a TT in my opinion.
Another board I know that could work well would be the Axis 1.44x46 Patrol, it would be easier on the upwind legs and very comfy on the reach, but I'd recommend 40mm fins max.

The C4 on the 50cm bar with the long depower worked fine, I had the kite on the freeride/light bar pressure setting, think I would have preferred the medium bar pressure setting. The kite works fine on this bar, the bar does not make it like last years kite, and I'd recommend sticking with the 45cm bar on the 9 and down. 50cm on the 10 and up if you are more old school and ride hooked in.

Also this year I'd say there is a 1M difference between the Edge 9M and the C4 9M.

I saw you out there tonight on the C4 Steve (I was the one trying to apologise to you for not giving way until the last minute). You were going upwind pretty well on the C4.

Eppo - haven't tried looping the Edge yet, should be ok on the 9m, want to give it a crack on the 13m, but need to htfu first. Do you loop ok on the 11m edge?

Don't know if I'd consider going to hard on the 13m! Maybe a gentle down loop or something. The 11m does loop okay on the fast settings. But make sure if kite to the right of the zenith forward loop it and vica versa (with a down loop). Need a bit of speed in the kite to get it around hey. For proper looping don't go there with the edge I want to keep living! The helicopter loop is okay though bit I still hold my breath. You get so high and long and you land so soft I mostly loop just for the farq of it. No need really.

But the 11m is fine in a back roll back loop but ya have to have ya timing right hey. It's not built to loop but it does fine for me. If I wanted to loop I'd be on the C4.

9m can go harder for sure and I still have it middle settings. I shoul change it but keep forgetting. than 9 just has the most enormous wind range. yet to find its top end yet bit winters coming!!!!!

eppo said...
Don't know if I'd consider going to hard on the 13m! Maybe a gentle down loop or something. The 11m does loop okay on the fast settings. But make sure if kite to the right of the zenith forward loop it and vica versa (with a down loop). Need a bit of speed in the kite to get it around hey. For proper looping don't go there with the edge I want to keep living! The helicopter loop is okay though bit I still hold my breath. You get so high and long and you land so soft I mostly loop just for the farq of it. No need really.

But the 11m is fine in a back roll back loop but ya have to have ya timing right hey. It's not built to loop but it does fine for me. If I wanted to loop I'd be on the C4.

9m can go harder for sure and I still have it middle settings. I shoul change it but keep forgetting. than 9 just has the most enormous wind range. yet to find its top end yet bit winters coming!!!!!

Good advice as always Eppo. While the Edge is not designed for powered kite below the rider type of kite loop, they are definitely designed to loop. Have you watched experienced kite racers? They all need to loop the kite when they gybe round the top mark and bear off downwind, so looping and the ability to turn with low rear line tension and not front luff are all key design features of a good race kite, which also makes the Edge awesome for old school hooked in freestyle.

eppo said...
The 11m does loop okay on the fast settings. But make sure if kite to the right of the zenith forward loop it and vica versa (with a down loop). Need a bit of speed in the kite to get it around hey. For proper looping don't go there with the edge I want to keep living! The helicopter loop is okay though bit I still hold my breath. You get so high and long and you land so soft I mostly loop just for the farq of it. No need really.

But the 11m is fine in a back roll back loop but ya have to have ya timing right hey. It's not built to loop but it does fine for me. If I wanted to loop I'd be on the C4.

Eppo, Just so I am dead sure, can you please confirm.

In your description of kite position for looping are you riding left foot forward in your description?

When you mention getting the timing right for a back roll backloop what is different / critcal in the timing for the Edge? Having the kite at zenith? Pulling the loop later than usual in the backroll? ie closer to when the backroll is completed? Other?

Fast settings = Heaviest Bar Pressure.